| i have a sleepez bed that I keep trying to soften by adding more layers of foam in the case. So I now have 4.5 layers in a case meant for 3 layers. The case still zips, but I wonder if I am compressing the foam so much that it is affecting the feel. I have talalay latex, which always felt springy to me, but I am wondering if this made it more springy? Or if this is bad for the foam? |
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I like the adjustable firmness slatted foundations (I probably would have bought one if my other half didn't want the adjustable massage do everything except wash the dishes Reverie base lol). In general, what they are good at is tweaking alignment. They are on the bottom so they would help control "lower firmness" or support ie. how far certain parts "sink down" to help spinal alignment. They would have little if any effect on "upper firmness" which comes more from the ILD and sag factor of the comfort layers and is more about how well a material allows parts of you to "sink in" and conform to your body shape to distribute weight and relieve pressure. In other words they could help make up for choices in support layers that were slightly off but they wouldn't really make up for choices in comfort layers that were slightly off. If I was ordering a 1" soft latex layer to add to a comfort layer, I would probably tend towards 20 ILD range given your weight. With the testing we have done it seems that it would be fine for comfort. Thinner layers in general "act" softer than thicker layers of the same ILD ... and their effect is more dependent on the relative ILD and thickness of the layers above and below. For example a firmer ILD thin layer can help you sink into a softer layer under it a little less and yet still feel "relatively" soft. This is the case with my mattress where the 1/2" quiltable latex is firmer than the 22 ILD Talalay right underneath it and (in combination with the "down alternative" fiber) results in slightly less sinking in to the softer layer below yet still feels soft. The tradeoff here is slightly less "point elasticity" or weight distribution/pressure relief in the softer layer. 1" layers can have quite a large effect in certain layering and ILD combinations. In general, I tend to use two "reference points" when I am comparing different places for buying latex. This is because they both have a good combination of pricing and materials available. Neither of them may be the least expensive for a particular layer someone may want to purchase (although one or the other of them often is) but they are usually a good starting point for good comparison. They are both very open about what they are selling and knowledgeable about latex in general. They also both often have other choices available besides what is listed on their website so it would be well worth calling them to see if they had exactly what what you wanted even if it wasn't specifically listed on their website. These are ... http://www.mattresses.net/index.html and There are a lot of other places as well with very good value but they will often not have the same wide selection. SLAB has the widest selection of Talalay including Celsion available but not Dunlop and you pay a little more. Foambymail is good if you really don't care how accurate what you get is but I wouldn't go there if what you need is more specific ... a little risky IMO. Overstock is also good for prices but risky in terms of what you actually get. Costco, Sams club is also great if they have what you want or need but they are way more limited. I plan to update the "toppers" thread when I get the chance to include a bunch more sources but haven't had the time so for now these are probably your best bet for toppers and/or cores and I would choose between them based on who had the best price for the specific type and ILD layer you were looking for since they both sell quality stuff. Phoenix This message was modified Dec 23, 2010 by Phoenix
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Phoenix I'm thinking if I order a dunlop firm I might as well order a full layer and convert my 9" mattress to 12". So 2 questions on this: 1) I don't especially like the sleepez mattress case, as it has wool and /or cotton that seems to be getting impressions. I'd rather buy a plain thin case and add my own wool or cotton topper. Do you know of anyone that sells super plain mattresses cases? 2) With these 2 new layers I would have 2 dunlop firms, 2 dunlop mediums, 2 talalay mediums, and 2 tal softs. I'm guessing I'd probably want something like (top to bottom): 1-2" new soft talalay over [tal-soft / dunlop firm / dunlop firm / dunlop med]. Do you think that would work? Or would I be better sticking with just the soft over firms (no medium)? Or do you have another suggestion? Thanks again! Steve This message was modified Dec 26, 2010 by st3v3k4hn
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Based on the testing we did, I would be a little wary about a mattress that thick. There's a lot of material to "sink down" into which could cause alignment issues. Every time you used 2 mediums underneath you tended to "sink down" too far and I would think that a bottom layer of medium dunlop would allow more sinking down than a firm foundation and so would be risky. I think 12" may be better for someone that weighs a lot more than you do and even then I would be wary and only go there if something thinner didn't work. I think that beyond 9-10" or so (one sided 6"+4") that zoning is usually more likely to solve a really difficult issue than "thickness". These are 4 places I know where you can get a zip mattress cover/encasement. I know of about 4 or 5 more possibilities that may sell them but I've never followed up with them and when I called today they weren't open. I'll call them tomorrow (for my own information as well) and if they do sell them I'll add them to the list. Phoenix |
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Leo3 wrote: I didn't want a zipper cover though. Leo, what do you have on your foam if not a zippered case? |
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st3v3k4hn wrote: Leo, what do you have on your foam if not a zippered case? This message was modified Jan 1, 2011 by Leo3
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Leo3 wrote: I am back to my plush (thin) polyester blanket. My thread tells I had the Dormeir, but found it caused more hip pain and that is fairly thin. It has 2 layers of terry cloth with a fluffy wool center, and loads of stitching. I have the latex laying on the mattress, it stays in place fine. I would never use a regular mattress cover, I can't take the tufting (stitching). But that is me, super sensitive. I have tried every mattress pad available in my area, and some mail order, and Costco Cuddlebed (the worse). Stitching is disaster for me, as well as tufting. I am not sure if you are as sensitive as me And, no I guess I'm not that bad, although my wife thinks I am crazy... |
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Phoenix wrote: Based on the testing we did, I would be a little wary about a mattress that thick. There's a lot of material to "sink down" into which could cause alignment issues. Every time you used 2 mediums underneath you tended to "sink down" too far and I would think that a bottom layer of medium dunlop would allow more sinking down than a firm foundation and so would be risky. I think 12" may be better for someone that weighs a lot more than you do and even then I would be wary and only go there if something thinner didn't work. I think that beyond 9-10" or so (one sided 6"+4") that zoning is usually more likely to solve a really difficult issue than "thickness". Phoenix I was peeking at some of the other threads and I think I will try the 2 stores in the Seattle area you mentioned before I order anything else. I've been sleeping on Soft over 2 dunlop mediums and its just miserable. I'm gonna add the 2" soft on top to see if thats any better, if not I will go back to the 2" over the soft over medium. But the truth is I've never really liked an all-latex mattress (the only ones I liked turned out to have "cheap" soft non-latex foam on top - now I know). So if I can't find a new one that feels soft in the store I might change direction and start looking for something new. Maybe latex over springs. I know Dux makes a mattress like this, and I think its probably pretty good altho they have no returns and are expensive. I dont know of any others designed like that but I'm sure they are out there. I actually think I like the separate core / separate topper approach that Dux does, and it looks like Seatlle Mattress does the same thing. Was it their own SMC brand that you were recommending, or another brand they carry? Anyway, thanks for all the advice and support. I'll let you know how the visit goes... Steve |
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I think that's a really good idea. Some of the mattresses at both stores may surprise you especially considering that you liked the feel of soft poly and you have never really tried the equivalent in "soft" latex (the sleepez is close to medium). The 2 mediums under I don't think would ever work for you but it's not the latex but the ILD's and thickness that is the problem. Having said that, you may well prefer the feel of innersprings even over the best latex layering but that remains to be seen (once you try softer over firmer and thicker in latex). SMC is their own brand. The "highlands" is their "layered" covered topper over core approach that had the "seam issue" that I mentioned in the other thread. It may have been an anomaly but we (she) saw it on several examples. The guy there that sort of speaks in a more "feminine" way was the most knowledgeable there that I talked to anyway. They are too expensive but great testing grounds. When I was talking to one of the girls there on the phone, she almost "begged" me to talk with the owner and tell him he was charging too much as their price/value is worse than bedroomsandmore and they "make their own". I think they don't want to "undercut" the other national brands they are carrying so they are "caught in the middle". Their pricing is much more like a retailer than a manufacturer. Also make sure you try the OMI at bedroomsandmore (especially the Terra) just to see what you think :). It was one of my early "reference points". Phoenix This message was modified Dec 26, 2010 by Phoenix
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Phoenix wrote: Based on the testing we did, I would be a little wary about a mattress that thick. There's a lot of material to "sink down" into which could cause alignment issues. Every time you used 2 mediums underneath you tended to "sink down" too far and I would think that a bottom layer of medium dunlop would allow more sinking down than a firm foundation and so would be risky. I think 12" may be better for someone that weighs a lot more than you do and even then I would be wary and only go there if something thinner didn't work. I think that beyond 9-10" or so (one sided 6"+4") that zoning is usually more likely to solve a really difficult issue than "thickness". Phoenix I'm also an engineer / programmer (retired though) and it seems to me like there should be a formula for this. Seriously. Like 3" of firm foam (as a core / support layer) for every 30lbs of body weight or something like that. So, if you weigh 150 you can get by with 5", but someone like me (240) would need 8" of foam. Obv this is just a random guess. But it seems intuitively right to me that a heavier person would need a thicker firm core??? If that sort of worked then you could just buy the core you need and play with "comfort" layers til it felt good. Man that would be easier! Steve |
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I'm no "mathematical wizard" but in several of my previous "research" efforts I did develop algorithms of sorts that reflected many moving parts. I also think that this approach would work here to at least approximate something pretty accurate. Of course if would depend a lot on the experiences and perceptions that were "input" since people use the same words to describe very different experiences (pain being one) that can have multiple causes ... but with a good enough "questionaire" for inputting values, I believe that an algorithm of sorts would work very well here as well. I am also convinced that working on only one of the three "factors" at a time (Feel/Preferences, Comfort/Pressure relief, and Support/Spinal alignment) and then "putting them all together" when each is known is way more effective at getting to the best outcome. Phoenix |