| i have a sleepez bed that I keep trying to soften by adding more layers of foam in the case. So I now have 4.5 layers in a case meant for 3 layers. The case still zips, but I wonder if I am compressing the foam so much that it is affecting the feel. I have talalay latex, which always felt springy to me, but I am wondering if this made it more springy? Or if this is bad for the foam? |
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Phoenix wrote: Based on the testing we did, I would be a little wary about a mattress that thick. There's a lot of material to "sink down" into which could cause alignment issues. Every time you used 2 mediums underneath you tended to "sink down" too far and I would think that a bottom layer of medium dunlop would allow more sinking down than a firm foundation and so would be risky. I think 12" may be better for someone that weighs a lot more than you do and even then I would be wary and only go there if something thinner didn't work. I think that beyond 9-10" or so (one sided 6"+4") that zoning is usually more likely to solve a really difficult issue than "thickness". Phoenix I was peeking at some of the other threads and I think I will try the 2 stores in the Seattle area you mentioned before I order anything else. I've been sleeping on Soft over 2 dunlop mediums and its just miserable. I'm gonna add the 2" soft on top to see if thats any better, if not I will go back to the 2" over the soft over medium. But the truth is I've never really liked an all-latex mattress (the only ones I liked turned out to have "cheap" soft non-latex foam on top - now I know). So if I can't find a new one that feels soft in the store I might change direction and start looking for something new. Maybe latex over springs. I know Dux makes a mattress like this, and I think its probably pretty good altho they have no returns and are expensive. I dont know of any others designed like that but I'm sure they are out there. I actually think I like the separate core / separate topper approach that Dux does, and it looks like Seatlle Mattress does the same thing. Was it their own SMC brand that you were recommending, or another brand they carry? Anyway, thanks for all the advice and support. I'll let you know how the visit goes... Steve |
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I think that's a really good idea. Some of the mattresses at both stores may surprise you especially considering that you liked the feel of soft poly and you have never really tried the equivalent in "soft" latex (the sleepez is close to medium). The 2 mediums under I don't think would ever work for you but it's not the latex but the ILD's and thickness that is the problem. Having said that, you may well prefer the feel of innersprings even over the best latex layering but that remains to be seen (once you try softer over firmer and thicker in latex). SMC is their own brand. The "highlands" is their "layered" covered topper over core approach that had the "seam issue" that I mentioned in the other thread. It may have been an anomaly but we (she) saw it on several examples. The guy there that sort of speaks in a more "feminine" way was the most knowledgeable there that I talked to anyway. They are too expensive but great testing grounds. When I was talking to one of the girls there on the phone, she almost "begged" me to talk with the owner and tell him he was charging too much as their price/value is worse than bedroomsandmore and they "make their own". I think they don't want to "undercut" the other national brands they are carrying so they are "caught in the middle". Their pricing is much more like a retailer than a manufacturer. Also make sure you try the OMI at bedroomsandmore (especially the Terra) just to see what you think :). It was one of my early "reference points". Phoenix This message was modified Dec 26, 2010 by Phoenix
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Phoenix wrote: Based on the testing we did, I would be a little wary about a mattress that thick. There's a lot of material to "sink down" into which could cause alignment issues. Every time you used 2 mediums underneath you tended to "sink down" too far and I would think that a bottom layer of medium dunlop would allow more sinking down than a firm foundation and so would be risky. I think 12" may be better for someone that weighs a lot more than you do and even then I would be wary and only go there if something thinner didn't work. I think that beyond 9-10" or so (one sided 6"+4") that zoning is usually more likely to solve a really difficult issue than "thickness". Phoenix I'm also an engineer / programmer (retired though) and it seems to me like there should be a formula for this. Seriously. Like 3" of firm foam (as a core / support layer) for every 30lbs of body weight or something like that. So, if you weigh 150 you can get by with 5", but someone like me (240) would need 8" of foam. Obv this is just a random guess. But it seems intuitively right to me that a heavier person would need a thicker firm core??? If that sort of worked then you could just buy the core you need and play with "comfort" layers til it felt good. Man that would be easier! Steve |
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I'm no "mathematical wizard" but in several of my previous "research" efforts I did develop algorithms of sorts that reflected many moving parts. I also think that this approach would work here to at least approximate something pretty accurate. Of course if would depend a lot on the experiences and perceptions that were "input" since people use the same words to describe very different experiences (pain being one) that can have multiple causes ... but with a good enough "questionaire" for inputting values, I believe that an algorithm of sorts would work very well here as well. I am also convinced that working on only one of the three "factors" at a time (Feel/Preferences, Comfort/Pressure relief, and Support/Spinal alignment) and then "putting them all together" when each is known is way more effective at getting to the best outcome. Phoenix |
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Given that there are 2 "basic" approaches to construction (differential and progressive ... although there are variations and other schemes as well) ... once you've decided on one or the other then the rest becomes much easier. Differential is a "safer" way to go with a support core first and then playing with comfort layers that are more "independent" of the support layers. Because "progressive" layering uses part of an underlying or overlying layer more, it is more difficult to get the support right even if you can get to the right comfort layers more easily. I personally prefer the "differential" approach for most people only because it is generally "safer" and easier to build. Since it always involves firmer support cores that are more based on weight and weight distribution, it is easier to build comfort on top of it. The progressive approach is more "nuanced" and many times involves changes and "transition layers" that affect both support and comfort more. Getting one right can very easily put the other one out of kilter. Because it has "finer" adjustments, It may end up being more "accurate" however and can be the difference between 80% and 95% perfection. Phoenix This message was modified Dec 26, 2010 by Phoenix
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You should write a book on this!
At the very least someone should collect your posts (& other good ones) and make them "stickies" - I assume you know what that is, but if not, its a collection of posts that answer the most commonly asked questions and stay at the top of the forum all the time. People basically ask 10 questions on this forum - and those have been answered 100 times, 100 ways. Awfully hard to find the best answers without something like FAQs or stickies. Wonder if there is an admin who might do this?? This message was modified Dec 26, 2010 by st3v3k4hn
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I've been working on writing something as a "guideline" that is a little simpler than my previous efforts but I always find that there are so many "important" things to include that it becomes "Charlie Brown's teacher" like (in Leo's words :)) and gets too complicated for what I would think most people want to read. I think that most people just want to get the "chore" over and done with as quickly as possible and would probably be happy with 70 - 80% but that would also leave out the people who wanted more "accuracy" or had more complex situations and were willing to spend a little more time and research on their choice. It'll probably be a while before I find the balance that is the "most effective". I did at least get to some kind of definition of a "perfect mattress" though ... A perfect mattress is the one that feels wonderful in every way when you first lay on it, that forms a "perfect for you" pressure relieving cradle in all your sleeping positions, and that seems like it "floats" on top of perfectly supporting lower layers that keep you in alignment all night long. This is the equivalent of "sleeping on a cloud". I guess that's a start (laughing). Phoenix |
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Phoenix wrote: Given that there are 2 "basic" approaches to construction (differential and progressive ... although there are variations and other schemes as well) ... once you've decided on one or the other then the rest becomes much easier. Differential is a "safer" way to go with a support core first and then playing with comfort layers that are more "independent" of the support layers. Because "progressive" layering uses part of an underlying or overlying layer more, it is more difficult to get the support right even if you can get to the right comfort layers more easily. I personally prefer the "differential" approach for most people only because it is generally "safer" and easier to build. Since it always involves firmer support cores that are more based on weight and weight distribution, it is easier to build comfort on top of it. The progressive approach is more "nuanced" and many times involves changes and "transition layers" that affect both support and comfort more. Getting one right can very easily put the other one out of kilter. Because it has "finer" adjustments, It may end up being more "accurate" however and can be the difference between 80% and 95% perfection. Phoenix Uh oh Charlie Brown's teacher is here, LOL, seriously though what the heck do you mean? Differential? Progressive, like bifocals, LOL. Talk layman terms for dummies please. Do you mean a hard as rock core, then soft? Do you mean Firm, medium, then soft is worse to do for fine tuning? |
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st3v3k4hn wrote: You should write a book on this!
At the very least someone should collect your posts (& other good ones) and make them "stickies" - I assume you know what that is, but if not, its a collection of posts that answer the most commonly asked questions and stay at the top of the forum all the time. People basically ask 10 questions on this forum - and those have been answered 100 times, 100 ways. Awfully hard to find the best answers without something like FAQs or stickies. Wonder if there is an admin who might do this?? Just PM Admin, there is a stickies already at the top of the page. If he likes he posts You asked about is the blanket enough to protect the latex, yes. You just are protecting it from light and dirt. When I used the Natura wool with polyester backing that was rough it ripped up my latex, so no that is not good. Luckily that latex is no longer used, it was shredded from that backing of the topper. You don't need a zipper case for my uses. Maybe for yours you need or want it too look good. But mine has a sheet over it and is not seen. Some do it yourself people used the terry cloth zipper over 3 layers of latex and it is protected enough. This message was modified Dec 27, 2010 by Leo3
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"Uh oh Charlie Brown's teacher is here, LOL, seriously though what the heck do you mean? Differential? Progressive, like bifocals, LOL. Talk layman terms for dummies please. Do you mean a hard as rock core, then soft? Do you mean Firm, medium, then soft is worse to do for fine tuning?" Differential approach means a bigger difference in ILD between the comfort layer(s) and the support layer(s). Say 3" of say 19 - 22 ILD over 6" of 36 or 40 ILD (or soft over firm) Progressive approach means a smaller difference in ILD between the comfort layer(s) and the support layers(s) say 3" of 22 ILD over 3" of 28 ILD over 3" of 40 ILD (or soft over medium over firm) Starting with Soft, Medium, Firm can be much more difficult to adjust because it's sort of a "compromise" of both comfort and support and trying to change the comfort ends up affecting the support as well (and vice versa) more than the other one. You can often get "more accurate" this way and change the overall "feel" of a mattress more but it can be a lot harder. Phoenix PS: you're a tough nut to crack ... but a great "testing ground" for what I "try to" write (laughing). This message was modified Dec 27, 2010 by Phoenix
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