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Okay, my mattress is just not working out for me and I'm re-thinking it all. My recent trip to my sister's home where I slept on a "regular" mattress for 2 nights and woke up with NO back pain, is making me realize I need to make changes. (I discount the theory that it was better just because I was "on vacation" because actually it was a stressful situation.) I'm going "back to basics", trying to think outside the box springs.( I know - bad pun. 1) What is the best platform for a latex+springs mattress in your opinions? Currently I am using a Sealy box springs (about 8 years old I think) which is made with some more-or-less heavy gauge wire on top, not wood. I always figured the platform or box springs really doesn't matter. But is it possible this is the problem - or a problem - with my mattress configuration? I have been wondering if I should build a wooden platform like the one Laredo created in this thread (has photos!). It's all wood with slats. OR, should I buy a new box springs. If so which one? I think most SCo's now use boxes that have wood slats on top instead of wire. Right? So if I should buy a "regular" box springs, which one? So should I use wood or old-style box springs as a foundation for my springs+latex mattress? What are you latex+springs folks using for your platform and why? 2) Springs. I'm convinced my Englander 12.5 gauge springs are too firm for me and don't comform to my body. So which springs should I try next? I'm still trying to find out what kind of springs my sister's guest bed had, that I liked. I may never find out, based on how hard it is to get her to go in there and look, and she's 2 thousand miles away... or she may have looked and not found a label. So I'm interested in your opinions. I think the idea of pocket coils sounds good in theory and I liked my old Simmons for about 6 months and then it either gave out or the springs migrated. That was about 12 years ago. I don't know what the problem was but it really hurt my back after I moved it to a new apartment. I think the springs migrated. I believe Budgy said in another thread that I can't find, that Simmons springs don't migrate now but they are now too stiff or something. I don't know if he answered my question: "So who does make good pocket coils now?" as I can't find the thread. (Sure wish this forum had the ability to Bookmark threads! Guess I'll have to start just putting them in my Browser bookmarks.) Or should I even try pocket coils? Someone said that offset coils from Sealy are pretty good but then didn't I read that they don't conform very well to your body? Or am I confused? So many springs, so little time! So all of you who have springs and like them, which ones do you like and why? 3) For the interim, I am thinking of trying a softer latex layer on top of my configuration. Should I go with the 14ILD Talatech or the 24ILD natural Talalay?
Someone at a foam place (who does not sell it) recommended I try a 14ILD but I am wondering if that would give NO support and be worthless to me. Does 14ILD Talatech provide enough support to not just be as useless (to me) as memory foam? I know the 32ILD Natural Talalay is too firm for me. It feels like it's pushing back against me too much and causes me pain. So is a 24ILD going to be enough softer but still supportive? I like the support of latex better than anything else. I recently tried my HR foam again and ecchh! it feels just "dead", more like Dunlop. Yet Talalay feels like it pushes back too much. I can't win... (Maybe the softer Talalay is the answer?) Thanks for your help! This message was modified May 24, 2010 by jimsocal
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) Especially those of you who have had or do have springs under your latex, please opine:|
I might also through the 19 ILD Talatech into your choices, and compromise between soft and medium. I worry a bit that the 14 would be too much like memory foam. I have not tried 14 blended, but I did try 15 Celsion/latex once and it seemed like it would not provide a lot of support. In terms of box spring, I don't have the expertise to really opine. My gut instinct is that most of the newer box springs just provide a firm platform and don't make much difference. Maybe on the upper end innersprings with "real" springs in the box springs it does make a difference. On the springs themselves, I guess your first decision will have to be pocketed coils vs. interlaced. If I recall your description of your sister's mattress correctly, I think that was probably interlaced. I worry a little bit about doing surgery on a pocketed coil, because you would be reducing the structural integrity a bit, and that might allow for more movement. Not sure though. I have never had a pocketed coil, so can't really opine on them. You may have to go back to the basics and try some at a store. Macy's had a fair selection when I was looking. Try the firmest to get a sense of just the springs. From US-mattress I gathered the following info. on Sealy springs, from cheapest to most expensive. For twin size: Cheapest 216 13 gauge Bonnell Next cheapest 234 12 3/4 gauge Bonnell Preferred 420 14 gauge Posturetech (offset??) Reserve/Signature 448 14 gauge Posturetech (offset??) Note that the Preferred on up have "edge support" which might make the effective coil count even higher (there are no coils on the outer edge of my Reserve). Sealy has a big jump in coil count when you go from the firmer Bonnell to their Posturetech. Not sure if any would be right for you. I would think that if you are looking for a bit softer gauge offset, then maybe try the Preferred? At the time I was looking, I think that definitely felt a bit softer than the Reserve. I know wonder if I would prefer the slighlty softer Preferred, because I need a fair amount of foam to soften up my springs for sidesleeping. You may have to gather info. on other makers and try to figure out somehow what is the best type for you. I don't think most of us will be able to help much, except maybe Budgy. Good luck. Keep us posted.
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jim, when I first started looking for latex, I went and tried out what Ikea had set up on their floor. I really liked the feel of the top of the line latex bed they have (which is a 6" Dunlop core, I think). It felt nice and springy yet supportive, so I thought maybe it was set on top of the Euro-slats. But no, she told me it was a box spring.I slid my hand under the mattress, but I couldn't really tell what the deal was. So, what I'm saying is this: if you are near an Ikea, maybe go see what they've done. Maybe you don't want to buy from them and maybe they don't sell it, but it might help you find some ideas. This message was modified May 25, 2010 by cynicaljones
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| You may not have the room (or the inclination) to do this, but if you can, try sleeping with your mattress directly on the floor for 2-3 nights and see if it helps or hurts the situation. This should remove any sag that may be resulting from the age of your box springs, and would pretty well simulate what it would be like to sleep on a solid or perhaps even slatted (like Laredo's) platform bed. I would think that if your 8 year old box springs have gotten a little too saggy in the middle, you could have the best mattress in the world on top of it and it would still be, to use the language of my kids, a total "fail". |
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im with Pianoman here (also love the use of the word fail lol). I think its worth trying before you spend any more money on changing something else, its the best empirical way to see if the boxspring is causing issues for you right now. |
| I have a twin mattress that is my "experiment" - trying out all sorts of things on it. I sits on an Ikea box spring (bonnel coils). I felt it was lacking support on the box so I moved it to the floor. When I put it on the floor it felt considerably firmer than on the Ikea box. In fact it was too firm on the floor. So I have it back on the box but I slipped a folded towel between the mattress and box, positioned under my ribcage. This gave it the little extra support I needed for that area without making it too firm under my shoulders and hips. Just goes to show how a box spring/foundation, or even a folded towel, can make a significant contribution to the whole setup. |
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As some have suggested, maybe try the mattress on the floor or possibly swap the box spring with your wife if hers is different. The box spring seem real firm if you lay on just it?
I think you have mentioned that you prefer your wife's mattress. What kind of springs does it have? This message was modified May 26, 2010 by sandman
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Thanks for all the suggestions. Sorry I have not been here for a day or two to respond. cynical, we do have an IKEA but it's about 45 min. away. However I will try to get over there some day in the near future. pianoman and budgy, yes I think trying the mattress without the box is going to be my first step. I have always felt that this couldn't be the problem, but I guess it could be, after all, couldn't it? So I'll try that. DiankeK - An Ikea box springs with Bonnell coils? Did you write that correctly? That sounds very interesting and might be something I'd like to try. Can you tell me the name of it? Cost? etc. As to pocket coils: Budgy - are there any pocket coils "out there" that would be any good for mattress surgery? I would try to leave the mattress alone and NOT do surgery of course, but with the pu foam in it, I am sure I'd probably have to do surgery sooner or later (probably sooner). The idea of foam around the edges I think would make a twin bed too small. It's already really too small but I don't have room for a bigger one. So if I were to buy pocket coils I'd have to get one without any - or with very little - foam encasing along the edges. And as someone pointed out, doing surgery might not work on pocket coils. Budgy, what do you think about all this pocket coil stuff? Are there any good ones and are there any I could do surgery with? If not, then what - in your opinion - type of springs would be the next best thing for me. Right now my mattress feels very good when I get into bed and I get a good 6 hours of sleep but then the last 2-3 hours starts to hurt my MID-back and by the time I get out of bed, I am just plan sore all over my back more or less from top to bottom but not really lower back. I've been experimenting with various configurations. I even went back to a 1" layer of HR foam but am now taking that back out. I also incorporated a 3/4" piece of very soft memory foam just to soften the whole thing up, and actually it does seem to help and since I'm not getting LOWER back pain I may stick with that either on top or on the bottom next to the springs... The other layer(s) has been my 1" 32ILD natural Talalay and my 3/4" latex mystery Talalay - maybe 28-32ILD maybe Talalay or Talatech. And sometimes with my 2" fluffy wool topper and sometimes without it.
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| Yes, I wrote that correctly although I misspelled Bonell. Ikea always likes to change things so the box I have no longer exists, at least not under the name I have. But if you look at their 2 Sultan box spring foundations they currently have, they both have Bonell coils. |
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Jim: I think any non-foam encased pocket coil will work fine for mattress surgery. |
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What type of memory foam are you using? If it is the fake blue Venus, it probably does not provide much support. I have a blue piece from overstock (not called Venus but I think it is the same maker, same density) and it provides less support than the Sensus. I think the Sensus is okay (especially for pressue point relief), but I don't think it breathes as well. So, I use some further down in the stack. Sensus or 14-19 ILD latex will probably be an improvement over the fake blue MF. I am also not sure you unknown piece of latex is the best quality. It could be all synthetic. You may want to upgrade that to 24 ILD 100% natural. I hate to suggest these things after all the money you have spent, but it is possible you need to upgrade those pieces. Right now you are not playing with a full deck (of quality layer options that is)
This message was modified May 26, 2010 by sandman
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