Mattress Forum

So the thing to do would be to inquire the price of the Barrington super ultra: Phoenix edition?  ;]

How does it lie on your adjustable bed -- that is, if the bed is up and you're not in it, does it bend to lie along the support surface or does it do Stonehenge impressions (lying like a straight stone cap perched on the support points)?

I just tested the combination in various positions to answer your question.

There are of course 3 bends in the adjustable bed base itself. One of them bends to raise the head part and two of them bend to raise the foot part. See diagram here http://www.reverie.com/deluxe.htm

With both head and foot raised to maximum, the mattress "curves" in between bend 1 and 2 while the bend of the base itself is of course more angular. This results in the mattress being about 3" above bend #1 and about 1.5" above bend #2. The bottom of the curve where the mattress rests on the frame is about half way between bend #1 and #2 and it looks well supported (not just "barely touching"). The Reverie goes to 70% at the head so this angle is more extreme than it would be on other types of adjustable beds.

The mattress conforms to bend #3 at the base except you can see that the very edge of the mattress is about 1" above the base. The actual support is coming a few inches "inside" the edge (part of this is because the very edge is "rounded" with the pillowtop) so the pillowtop itself is touching the frame but the mattress cording is slightly above the frame.

With just the head raised to maximum, the differential at bend #1 is just slightly less (maybe 2.5").

With just the head raised to about 1/2 way, the differential at bend #1 (maximum distance between the mattress and base) is about 2".

With just the feet raised, the differential between the mattress and bend 2 is about 1.5" (same as before) but the support at the edge is closer to the end of the base.

In other words, I would have to say that it is nothing like "stonehenge" and that while it's comformity doesn't go all the way into the more angular bends of the base, it seems to conform very well and the end does not "flip up" as I have seen happen with other mattresses.

A slightly thinner mattress would probably conform even better but all of this is without any weight.

Hope this helps

Phoenix

Interesting that a mattress that thick conforms to the bed that well.

One of several reasons I've wondered if we could find a different adjustable bed for her that had significant height range adjustability is that I've thought that a mattress any thicker than the about eight inch one she has now might make it hard for her to get into bed.  And when we first looked at mattresses locally,  the one sided ones -- which were about all we could find locally -- were all thick.  Even for her to lie on the flat display models there often had to be something for her to climb on to get onto them.

We looked at the nexgel doublegel -- which she liked better than others she looked at, but still not very well.  It's theoretically OK for adjustable beds, but when the bed was put up without weight on it, it definitely did Stonehenge impressions, as did all the other "adjustable bed mattresses" that store carried.   She'd never have been able to get back into bed with one of those if she got out with the bed up -- and there have been times when she's had to use elevation of the head of the bed to help her get into position to get up -- depending on how her back is.  Even with the bed flat getting in with those thick one sided mattresses would have been a problem.

She's not an extremely short woman -- about 5'6" -- I think that difficulty for women getting into beds with the thick one sided mattresses is yet another problem induced by the industry decline from *good* two sided mattresses to (cough) one sided mattresses.  She remarked that some of her friends had had problems getting into beds with thick new mattresses in recent years, but just learned to back up to the bed and kind of crouch and jump backwards.  Not a good idea for anyone, and certainly not for older people, and definitely not something Mom could do safely.

Not sure if you were asking me or meaning to call them and ask but in case it was me, I paid $1409.95 plus $287.80 shipping for a total of $1697.75. He actually split the paypal payments and made a $10 mistake in his addition (should have been 1399.95 plus shipping) but I didn't quibble or even mention it to him :).

When I originally called him I asked him what the price would be for a queen size with 9" of Talalay latex with a quilted top (this was my standard question for everyone) and he quoted me 1199.95 plus 227.75 shipping from Texas to Washington state (this was for 2.5" plus 4" + 2.5" quilted both sides which was the rough outcome of our original conversation) but what got my attention was that it was quilted both sides and so flippable (he is a big proponent of 2 sided mattresses). This was one of the things that made him stand out among the crowd and part of why I pursued it through many more conversations.

When we came up with the final configuration, the original price he quoted me was higher (I believe it was about 1600 plus shipping) and I commented about the "big jump" (I hadn't realized that adding a half inch of latex in both outer layers and another 1/2 inch of quitable latex and the down substitute and material in the quilting would increase the cost by about $400). He looked at it and then came down to the price I mentioned and I said yes on the spot.

Phoenix

I went to their website and strangely enough you're right they don't have an email listed. I did exchange emails with him but I don't know if this was an email he want's "released" so it would probably be better to ask him. I rarely emailed anyone cause I like the "immediacy" of just calling and talking to people so I never noticed that. I did check their BBB rating and they have an A+ rating and have been listed there for over 20 years so I had some confidence they were "for real" from the outset.

Down substitute is a material that feels very much like down but is synthetic and tends to keep it's loft better than down and be more resistant to moisture. He said he really liked this one and after I got the mattress I asked him what it was (he originally mentioned that it came from italy) because I had a feeling someone would ask me. He said he would email me with the information but I haven't received it yet. My guess is that it's Primaloft or something similar

The surface material itself is quite smooth but the quilting I ordered has "bumps" in it similar to the one on their home page but "rounder".

Originally I was building to certain specs and it didn't matter so much to me if it was blended Talalay or natural talalay (they both have different advantages but are very similar). I was debating between 22 and 24 for the top layers and 28 or 32 for the core. Once we decided on certain ILD's I was curious and looked at the LI website and realized that the 22 had to be natural while the 28 could have been either. I asked him if the layers were 22 natural and 28 blended (that was my assumption) and he said yes. I was actually happy in retrospect that it turned out this way because the natural is a little "springier" and the blend would be a little "firmer" (slightly less resilience) so it worked out well (this is really nitpicking and I doubt anyone would actually feel this). I also like the idea of sleeping closer to 100% latex (even though the layer closest to me is the down substitute) but which versions of talalay for either was a minor issue for me.

The listed shipping weight was 125 lbs but it felt more like a ton :). The delivery guy asked me if it really weighed that much and I laughed and said it was probably more. I would guess that it was a bit more than that based on the two of us carrying it up a flight of steps and that this was just their "shipping weight" for cost purposes but it was at least that. They shipped it truck freight and it was wrapped in thick plastic and then a tougher stiffer material over that (probably a puncture proof material of some kind). I was kind of surprised because for some reason I expected it to be shipped in cardboard but it arrived in good shape.

I didn't even ask about a comfort guarantee for two reasons really. First I was pretty sure that I could adjust it enough with something on top if I needed to soften it up at all (I knew that 22 wouldn't be too soft) and second because I was well aware that shipping a whole mattress would be prohibitively expensive. If for some reason I needed to adjust it in a way that a mattress pad or even a topper couldn't fix, I would be better off selling it and starting over again (my loss would be less than the shipping for a mattress). This was part of the risk I was willing to take but it seemed minimal to me. I'm sure they would be happy to alter it if someone needed to and was willing to pay shipping (as I'm sure most custom manufacturers would) but quite frankly I never asked as the lack of a practical comfort exchange was something that of course I considered but willingly gave up in exchange for getting the other advantages of a custom builder.

Durability (and perhaps even more important the ability to maintain it's qualities over time) was a very big reason that I wanted latex ... along with it's other advantages. This was very important to me from the beginning of my search.

Phoenix

PS: As far as "interviewing" every mattress manufacturer, sometimes it feels like I did (laughing). I lost count of how many conversations I had that started off with my "standard" questions and then went in all kinds of different directions. There are hundreds of them though it seems and I got pretty good at "targeting" which ones to pursue and which ones to pass by.

Also, wherever you tried it, did you by any chance find out the ILD of the layers and topper that form the Terra?

While it could change, currently, Mom thinks that she's most interested in the Terra. 

While the whole mattress industry seems so veracity-challenged that one wonders about anything said by any manufacturer, we're somewhat impressed by the OrganicPedic folks' claim that, because of their "organic" standards, they exercise more control over the composition and manufacturing procedures used for their components than other mattress makers -- and that whenever possible they manufacture their components themselves -- and that their rubber is brought into the country in powdered form and made into Talalay latex here, so that it escapes some of the chemicals to which rubber imported in other forms must be exposed. 

Some of their information alleged that, even if other mattress makers have good intentions, they usually don't have any way to really know what is in many of their components, or things like exactly what quality of cotton or wool or latex is used, or to what external conditions their components have been exposed -- and that does kind of ring true.  

It's interesting to us not so much in the organic-purist sense as in a high quality control sense, though the organic element seems more of an issue with an older person or any other person who might have increased sensitivity and decreased resistance to adverse effects induced by stray chemicals, even in small quanitities that might not be significant to the rest of us.

In combating criticisms that their use of organic wool as a fire retardant might stimulate wool allergies, they point out that wool as it's used in the mattress never contacts anyone directly, and thus has little chance of stimulating allergies, then they remark that the usual alternative is silica, and observe that it seems a questionable benefit for other manufacturers to say "to protect you from a distant chance of a wool allergy, we substitute a component that may cause cancer." 

I chuckled a bit about the pronouncement that their organic sheep are never dipped into pesticides, as I did wonder . . . it's certainly no kindness to sheep to let them be exposed to parasites -- a common old method was to cook up a mix of  Indian Poke, tobacco, and other things -- or whatever was locally available that was believed to have parasite-repelling properties, often quite a toxic, though "natural" mix -- and dip the sheep in that, so I do wonder what those organic sheep really get dipped in -- something similar, I suspect. 

JLJ

Given what I have since found out, I would question some of what OMI says not because it's untrue necessarily but because it's "slanted". I have no doubt that they use very high quality materials and they really are beautiful but I can't imagine (not possible) that they produce their own Talalay and I think they may be referring there to what LI does when they make the Talalay that they use in which case anyone that used their talalay could make the same claim.

In terms of the fire regulations, I would tend to believe them that they only use wool that to their knowledge has nothing added (they don't say the "to our knowledge" part) however adding Silica does not add a cancer risk so they are probably referring to the other alternatives that are used such as Boron, PBDE type compounds, or antimony. Here too though, they are not the only one that use thick GOTS certified wool. As I mentioned in another thread too, GOTS doesn't test for Silica. There are also different qualities of wool and the source makes a difference (Being Dutch with Friesland ancestry, I choose to believe that the wool that comes from sheep that live on the islands off Holland (Friesland) produce the best wool (laughing)).

I personally believe that they are not the "most organic" manufacturers out there and that other manufacturers use materials of equal or greater "purity" in terms of the latex, wool, and cotton. I have had some indication that some of their "wording" in their claims are more about marketing than anything else and I believe that it is the perception that comes from this marketing that allows them to charge as much as they do in comparison to others who use similar materials of equal "purity". Their cover though is very nice in comparison to most others ... although I don't believe this alone justifies their cost.

As to the parasites and what they use ... not sure I want to go there :). A long time ago I used to sell an herbal product that was a "parasite cleanse" and I have seen very clear and somewhat horrifying evidence (personally and from others) that we as humans are not immune from them either on the outside or the inside. I think that's probably enough of that though (grimacing).

All in all ... I think there are many really good reasons to buy a Terra. The only reason I would personally question it ... especially after the research I have done ... was the price.

Phoenix

As far as anyone else being able to make the same claim about their latex -- that might be true, but I don't think one can assume that it is.  I have known personally of instances when components (not mattress components) were manufactured for a customer to meet specific requirements set by that customer's purchase contract -- and other customers of that supplier, even though theoretically buying the same item, didn't necessarily receive components manufactured to the same specs -- so that might or might not apply in this situation.

I believe that their "organic" sheep live in Northern California.

I think you always have to kind of take marketing claims a little lightly -- and consider the source and circumstances of each.  In general, I feel about them about the way I do about political claims.  As long as politicians say things like "My opponent favors massive tax rises to pour into wasteful extravagance, while I am for essential revenue enhancement to be prudently dispersed for the public good" they don't bother me -- when they begin to venture into outright lies, that's something else.

Your mention of the cover does remind me of a little thing that seems to me significant -- though I won't know how helpful it is until/unless we try it.  But they have an attachable topper -- that seems to me a very good idea, and I'm surprised that, as common as toppers are, there aren't more provisions for securing them.  In their case, there are attachment locations built onto the mattress, but I don't think it would be hard to have some sort of simple, inexpensive (ha!) harness that slid under any mattress and secured the topper.  I doubt that it's an issue for many people, but for adjustable beds, and for people, especially older people, who kind of scoot on and off the bed and tend to pull the mattress a little off the base anyway, topper attachment seems to me a good idea.

I agree about the price, but I haven't seen other sources that seemed to be offering the same alleged level of product for a much better price.  Having inspected most of the mattress makers in the US -- at least remotely -- you probably have. [g]

JLJ

Phoenix