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PROBLEM DESCRIPTION: We're looking for a new twin mattress, probably extra long, for my 86 year old mother to use on her adjustable bed. She has had progressive spine problems for about 40 years, somewhat alleviated by the fact that she's always exercised to the extent she was able and by two back surgeries (most recent about ten years ago). Her mobility has become increasingly limited, so a comfortable bed is increasingly important. Often firm mattresses are recommended for back problems, but for her, they are miserable. Last time we shopped for a mattress she was able to get to a large mattress store, tried many, and the only one she found comfortable seemed to me about as firm as jello. She loved her jello mattress for a number of years, however. But now she says her bed feels to her as if it has rocks in it. My efforts to locate the rocks have led me to conclude that perhaps her back, very sensitive to touch, is being irritated by places where the mattress has worn unevenly over the years at the points where her adjustable bed bends. So we're searching for a new mattress, without rocks. ;] We normally rotate or flip (alternately) her mattress every time the sheets are changed and I think this has helped maintain it as comfortable for her, so we are really looking for a two sided mattress -- and, I believe, we probably want Talalay latex. We live in rural Wyoming -- and those stores within a distance she can travel seem to have gone entirely with the single sided mattress lines, so we will probably order a mattress online, unless a local store suddenly acquires something suitable. QUESTION 1: We've been considering the OMI OrganicPedic Flora (100% natural rubber Talalay latex 3 inch firm core with two inches softer latex top and bottom enclosed in quilted wool/cotton -- rated medium firm) and also the Terra. The Terra appears to be the Flora with a removable, 100% natural rubber latex, two sided, flat/contoured attachable/detachable 3 1/2 inch topper, also enclosed in quilted wool/cotton -- Terra firmness rated plush -- presumably because of the soft topper. The Terra seemed a possiblity that would make enable us to change the firm/soft property and also the smooth/contoured surface property fairly easily, not only for initial comfort, but also because the sensitivity of different areas of her back varies from time to time. Price is comparatively high, but both because she puts more mileage on her bed than most of us, and because comfort in bed is important to maintaining the limited mobility she still has, we'd be willing to spend that, if the mattress would be good for her. Does anyone have any experience with these OMI OrganicPedic mattresses? It would be especially nice to know if they worked well on an adjustable bed, but reports of any kind of experience, even showroom tryout impressions, would be helpful. QUESTION 2: After several weeks of reading posts on this forum, the favorable reports of so many about their Flobeds caused us to consider that source. Their 90 day layer exchange period is certainly a big plus for someone who is unable to try out mattresses being considered. Some things I wondered about: a) It does not appear to me that these mattresses are designed to be flippable -- is that correct? I realize that one can open the mattress cover and shuffle layers, but that is surely more complicated that rotating/flipping a mattress -- and when you are accustomed to rotating/flipping frequently . . . I wonder if that would be a problem. b) Has anyone used these on an adjustable bed? I realize that separate latex layers tend not to slide over one another readily, but I wonder whether the frequent movements of an adjustable bed might cause them to get out of alignment, develop bumps where one layer bent more and the layer above bent less as the bed went up, etc. c) If one wished to change firmness or to replace a damaged layer after the 90 period, does Flobeds sell layers individually? QUESTION 3: Does anyone have any mattress suggestions they think would be better for our situation than the Organipedic or Flobed possibilities mentioned? QUESTION 4: I realize the forum topic is mattresses, not adjustable beds, but some here do seem to know about them. She currently has a twin extra long adjustable bed that works fairly well but I'd been wondering: a) Does anyone know of a maker/model of adjustable bed that has substantial height adjustment capacity? Her current bed has none, and all we've been able to find has about 12 inches of height adjustment in the middle height range. What I wish we could find is one that could go completely down to the floor and up to something a little above standard height. She has had times where she fell or got down on the floor and it was *very* difficult to get her up -- not because she was injured but because it's hard to help her when one shouldn't put pressure on her arms, shoulders or back. We've been kidding her about needing a monorail and harness like they used for Barbaro or some other type of "Momavator" that could elevate her from the floor, but we'd been thinking that if there was an adjustable bed that went really low, it might be a serious way to deal with such situations. And the ability to raise the height to a little above standard would be useful if she had a bedfast episode, which we try to avoid but which has happened in the past. b) Does anyone know of any reason it would be inappropriate to put larger wheels on her existing adjustable bed if they could be made to fit? We currently have her bed's feet on contoured blocks (blocks that elevate the bed's four feet but don't allow them to roll off the blocks) because the tiny wheels on the bed's feet sink into the carpet and make dents and because we want the room to be Roomba-friendly so the bottom of the bed needs to be high enough for Roomba to clear. Larger wheels might make it possible to eliminate the blocks, move the bed more easily, and keep Roomba happy. Thanks for any thoughts, JLJ |
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So the thing to do would be to inquire the price of the Barrington super ultra: Phoenix edition? Not sure if you were asking me or meaning to call them and ask but in case it was me, I paid $1409.95 plus $287.80 shipping for a total of $1697.75. He actually split the paypal payments and made a $10 mistake in his addition (should have been 1399.95 plus shipping) but I didn't quibble or even mention it to him :). When I originally called him I asked him what the price would be for a queen size with 9" of Talalay latex with a quilted top (this was my standard question for everyone) and he quoted me 1199.95 plus 227.75 shipping from Texas to Washington state (this was for 2.5" plus 4" + 2.5" quilted both sides which was the rough outcome of our original conversation) but what got my attention was that it was quilted both sides and so flippable (he is a big proponent of 2 sided mattresses). This was one of the things that made him stand out among the crowd and part of why I pursued it through many more conversations. When we came up with the final configuration, the original price he quoted me was higher (I believe it was about 1600 plus shipping) and I commented about the "big jump" (I hadn't realized that adding a half inch of latex in both outer layers and another 1/2 inch of quitable latex and the down substitute and material in the quilting would increase the cost by about $400). He looked at it and then came down to the price I mentioned and I said yes on the spot. Phoenix This message was modified Oct 29, 2010 by Phoenix
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Phoenix wrote: So the thing to do would be to inquire the price of the Barrington super ultra: Phoenix edition? Not sure if you were asking me or meaning to call them and ask but in case it was me, I paid $1409.95 plus $287.80 shipping for a total of $1697.75. ==== Well, kind of both. You seem to have interviewed about every mattress maker on the continent and have tested quite a few of them -- and you like a soft mattress -- where so many people recommend "buy this nice firm rock, and if you need to soften it up a little, you can grow moss on top of it". OK -- not *exactly* a quote, but more or less that sentiment. ;] I really prefer to deal in writing, though, rather than on the phone -- I gather they don't have an email address? What is "down substitute"? Does the surface seem more or less smooth? (I realize it's quilted, but I mean as opposed to the contoured surfaces?) Was the blended talalay core your preference to an all natural talalay or was that just what they had available? Do you know what blend it was? Do you know what it weighs? (NOT suggesting you drag it off the bed and weigh it [g]. Just thought you might have known for shipping purposes.) How did they ship it? If I recall correctly, they did offer some sort of comfort guarantee -- was that right and if so, how did it operate -- that you would ship it back to them and they'd alter it? (Obviously something one would want to do only as a last resort, but better than being stuck with an unusable mattress.) Did I understand correctly that while you think it will be durable, that was not one of your primary concerns?
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I really don't like rocks much ... at least to sleep on. Being in the Pacific northwest though maybe I should be worried about growing moss on it :) I went to their website and strangely enough you're right they don't have an email listed. I did exchange emails with him but I don't know if this was an email he want's "released" so it would probably be better to ask him. I rarely emailed anyone cause I like the "immediacy" of just calling and talking to people so I never noticed that. I did check their BBB rating and they have an A+ rating and have been listed there for over 20 years so I had some confidence they were "for real" from the outset. Down substitute is a material that feels very much like down but is synthetic and tends to keep it's loft better than down and be more resistant to moisture. He said he really liked this one and after I got the mattress I asked him what it was (he originally mentioned that it came from italy) because I had a feeling someone would ask me. He said he would email me with the information but I haven't received it yet. My guess is that it's Primaloft or something similar The surface material itself is quite smooth but the quilting I ordered has "bumps" in it similar to the one on their home page but "rounder". Originally I was building to certain specs and it didn't matter so much to me if it was blended Talalay or natural talalay (they both have different advantages but are very similar). I was debating between 22 and 24 for the top layers and 28 or 32 for the core. Once we decided on certain ILD's I was curious and looked at the LI website and realized that the 22 had to be natural while the 28 could have been either. I asked him if the layers were 22 natural and 28 blended (that was my assumption) and he said yes. I was actually happy in retrospect that it turned out this way because the natural is a little "springier" and the blend would be a little "firmer" (slightly less resilience) so it worked out well (this is really nitpicking and I doubt anyone would actually feel this). I also like the idea of sleeping closer to 100% latex (even though the layer closest to me is the down substitute) but which versions of talalay for either was a minor issue for me. The listed shipping weight was 125 lbs but it felt more like a ton :). The delivery guy asked me if it really weighed that much and I laughed and said it was probably more. I would guess that it was a bit more than that based on the two of us carrying it up a flight of steps and that this was just their "shipping weight" for cost purposes but it was at least that. They shipped it truck freight and it was wrapped in thick plastic and then a tougher stiffer material over that (probably a puncture proof material of some kind). I was kind of surprised because for some reason I expected it to be shipped in cardboard but it arrived in good shape. I didn't even ask about a comfort guarantee for two reasons really. First I was pretty sure that I could adjust it enough with something on top if I needed to soften it up at all (I knew that 22 wouldn't be too soft) and second because I was well aware that shipping a whole mattress would be prohibitively expensive. If for some reason I needed to adjust it in a way that a mattress pad or even a topper couldn't fix, I would be better off selling it and starting over again (my loss would be less than the shipping for a mattress). This was part of the risk I was willing to take but it seemed minimal to me. I'm sure they would be happy to alter it if someone needed to and was willing to pay shipping (as I'm sure most custom manufacturers would) but quite frankly I never asked as the lack of a practical comfort exchange was something that of course I considered but willingly gave up in exchange for getting the other advantages of a custom builder. Durability (and perhaps even more important the ability to maintain it's qualities over time) was a very big reason that I wanted latex ... along with it's other advantages. This was very important to me from the beginning of my search. Phoenix PS: As far as "interviewing" every mattress manufacturer, sometimes it feels like I did (laughing). I lost count of how many conversations I had that started off with my "standard" questions and then went in all kinds of different directions. There are hundreds of them though it seems and I got pretty good at "targeting" which ones to pursue and which ones to pass by. This message was modified Nov 1, 2010 by Phoenix
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Phoenix, a couple things I was wondering. I hadn't realized before where you are located -- was the place where you repeatedly tried the Terra to refresh your memory by any chance Bedrooms and More? Not that it matters, I just wondered. Also, wherever you tried it, did you by any chance find out the ILD of the layers and topper that form the Terra? While it could change, currently, Mom thinks that she's most interested in the Terra. While the whole mattress industry seems so veracity-challenged that one wonders about anything said by any manufacturer, we're somewhat impressed by the OrganicPedic folks' claim that, because of their "organic" standards, they exercise more control over the composition and manufacturing procedures used for their components than other mattress makers -- and that whenever possible they manufacture their components themselves -- and that their rubber is brought into the country in powdered form and made into Talalay latex here, so that it escapes some of the chemicals to which rubber imported in other forms must be exposed. Some of their information alleged that, even if other mattress makers have good intentions, they usually don't have any way to really know what is in many of their components, or things like exactly what quality of cotton or wool or latex is used, or to what external conditions their components have been exposed -- and that does kind of ring true. It's interesting to us not so much in the organic-purist sense as in a high quality control sense, though the organic element seems more of an issue with an older person or any other person who might have increased sensitivity and decreased resistance to adverse effects induced by stray chemicals, even in small quanitities that might not be significant to the rest of us. In combating criticisms that their use of organic wool as a fire retardant might stimulate wool allergies, they point out that wool as it's used in the mattress never contacts anyone directly, and thus has little chance of stimulating allergies, then they remark that the usual alternative is silica, and observe that it seems a questionable benefit for other manufacturers to say "to protect you from a distant chance of a wool allergy, we substitute a component that may cause cancer." I chuckled a bit about the pronouncement that their organic sheep are never dipped into pesticides, as I did wonder . . . it's certainly no kindness to sheep to let them be exposed to parasites -- a common old method was to cook up a mix of Indian Poke, tobacco, and other things -- or whatever was locally available that was believed to have parasite-repelling properties, often quite a toxic, though "natural" mix -- and dip the sheep in that, so I do wonder what those organic sheep really get dipped in -- something similar, I suspect. JLJ |
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Yes ... It was Bedrooms and More. I don't remember exactly what the ILD was or even if I asked at the time as it was early in my search and the OMI was a feel that we were trying to duplicate more than a spec at the time. I just phoned them though and talked with a "Jackie" there and asked her what the ILD's were. She didn't know specifically but said that it was soft on top and that the core was a "sandwich" of soft firm soft. She had also just bought one for herself and loved it. I told her why I wanted to know because "a friend's mother was interested etc." and she said she would call and find out for me and call me back in an hour or two. I'll post here when she does. Given what I have since found out, I would question some of what OMI says not because it's untrue necessarily but because it's "slanted". I have no doubt that they use very high quality materials and they really are beautiful but I can't imagine (not possible) that they produce their own Talalay and I think they may be referring there to what LI does when they make the Talalay that they use in which case anyone that used their talalay could make the same claim. In terms of the fire regulations, I would tend to believe them that they only use wool that to their knowledge has nothing added (they don't say the "to our knowledge" part) however adding Silica does not add a cancer risk so they are probably referring to the other alternatives that are used such as Boron, PBDE type compounds, or antimony. Here too though, they are not the only one that use thick GOTS certified wool. As I mentioned in another thread too, GOTS doesn't test for Silica. There are also different qualities of wool and the source makes a difference (Being Dutch with Friesland ancestry, I choose to believe that the wool that comes from sheep that live on the islands off Holland (Friesland) produce the best wool (laughing)). I personally believe that they are not the "most organic" manufacturers out there and that other manufacturers use materials of equal or greater "purity" in terms of the latex, wool, and cotton. I have had some indication that some of their "wording" in their claims are more about marketing than anything else and I believe that it is the perception that comes from this marketing that allows them to charge as much as they do in comparison to others who use similar materials of equal "purity". Their cover though is very nice in comparison to most others ... although I don't believe this alone justifies their cost. As to the parasites and what they use ... not sure I want to go there :). A long time ago I used to sell an herbal product that was a "parasite cleanse" and I have seen very clear and somewhat horrifying evidence (personally and from others) that we as humans are not immune from them either on the outside or the inside. I think that's probably enough of that though (grimacing). All in all ... I think there are many really good reasons to buy a Terra. The only reason I would personally question it ... especially after the research I have done ... was the price. Phoenix This message was modified Nov 15, 2010 by Phoenix
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Regarding the latex, as far as I know they don't claim to make it themselves, they say that it's brought into the country as a powder and manufactured in the US -- and is thus, so they say -- less exposed to various chemicals than rubber that is brought into the country in any other form. They say that to the extent they can, they manufacture their own components, and in the other instances they have specific requirements that must be certified to be met on components supplied to them. As I said . . . it's a veracity challlenged industry so one never knows . . . but there does seem to be evidence that they are fairly compulsive about their manufacturing. As far as anyone else being able to make the same claim about their latex -- that might be true, but I don't think one can assume that it is. I have known personally of instances when components (not mattress components) were manufactured for a customer to meet specific requirements set by that customer's purchase contract -- and other customers of that supplier, even though theoretically buying the same item, didn't necessarily receive components manufactured to the same specs -- so that might or might not apply in this situation. I believe that their "organic" sheep live in Northern California. I think you always have to kind of take marketing claims a little lightly -- and consider the source and circumstances of each. In general, I feel about them about the way I do about political claims. As long as politicians say things like "My opponent favors massive tax rises to pour into wasteful extravagance, while I am for essential revenue enhancement to be prudently dispersed for the public good" they don't bother me -- when they begin to venture into outright lies, that's something else. Your mention of the cover does remind me of a little thing that seems to me significant -- though I won't know how helpful it is until/unless we try it. But they have an attachable topper -- that seems to me a very good idea, and I'm surprised that, as common as toppers are, there aren't more provisions for securing them. In their case, there are attachment locations built onto the mattress, but I don't think it would be hard to have some sort of simple, inexpensive (ha!) harness that slid under any mattress and secured the topper. I doubt that it's an issue for many people, but for adjustable beds, and for people, especially older people, who kind of scoot on and off the bed and tend to pull the mattress a little off the base anyway, topper attachment seems to me a good idea. I agree about the price, but I haven't seen other sources that seemed to be offering the same alleged level of product for a much better price. Having inspected most of the mattress makers in the US -- at least remotely -- you probably have. [g] JLJ |
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I am "pretty certain" that their latex is no different from other LI talalay. Sent you a PM. Phoenix This message was modified Nov 15, 2010 by Phoenix
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If they were using Dunlop, their claim that their latex is in any way different would be more believable. There are other high cost/high quality manufacturers (Greensleep comes to mind) that have far more control over their latex supply chain than OMI does by a long shot since they own their own plantation and even use a specific "type" of rubber tree to produce their latex ... but they are using Dunlop and there are many more manufacturers of Dunlop than Talalay. I also like both the material they use in their cover and it's design. If I don't get a call back soon from Bedrooms and more, I'll call them again. I'm curious as well now that you brought it up. Phoenix |
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JLJ_ wrote: PROBLEM DESCRIPTION:
We're looking for a new twin mattress, probably extra long, for my 86 year old mother to use on her adjustable bed. She has had progressive spine problems for about 40 years, somewhat alleviated by the fact that she's always exercised to the extent she was able and by two back surgeries (most recent about ten years ago). Her mobility has become increasingly limited, so a comfortable bed is increasingly important. Often firm mattresses are recommended for back problems, but for her, they are miserable. Last time we shopped for a mattress she was able to get to a large mattress store, tried many, and the only one she found comfortable seemed to me about as firm as jello. She loved her jello mattress for a number of years, however. But now she says her bed feels to her as if it has rocks in it. My efforts to locate the rocks have led me to conclude that perhaps her back, very sensitive to touch, is being irritated by places where the mattress has worn unevenly over the years at the points where her adjustable bed bends. So we're searching for a new mattress, without rocks. ;] We normally rotate or flip (alternately) her mattress every time the sheets are changed and I think this has helped maintain it as comfortable for her, so we are really looking for a two sided mattress -- and, I believe, we probably want Talalay latex. We live in rural Wyoming -- and those stores within a distance she can travel seem to have gone entirely with the single sided mattress lines, so we will probably order a mattress online, unless a local store suddenly acquires something suitable. QUESTION 1: We've been considering the OMI OrganicPedic Flora (100% natural rubber Talalay latex 3 inch firm core with two inches softer latex top and bottom enclosed in quilted wool/cotton -- rated medium firm) and also the Terra. The Terra appears to be the Flora with a removable, 100% natural rubber latex, two sided, flat/contoured attachable/detachable 3 1/2 inch topper, also enclosed in quilted wool/cotton -- Terra firmness rated plush -- presumably because of the soft topper. The Terra seemed a possiblity that would make enable us to change the firm/soft property and also the smooth/contoured surface property fairly easily, not only for initial comfort, but also because the sensitivity of different areas of her back varies from time to time. Price is comparatively high, but both because she puts more mileage on her bed than most of us, and because comfort in bed is important to maintaining the limited mobility she still has, we'd be willing to spend that, if the mattress would be good for her. Does anyone have any experience with these OMI OrganicPedic mattresses? It would be especially nice to know if they worked well on an adjustable bed, but reports of any kind of experience, even showroom tryout impressions, would be helpful. QUESTION 2: After several weeks of reading posts on this forum, the favorable reports of so many about their Flobeds caused us to consider that source. Their 90 day layer exchange period is certainly a big plus for someone who is unable to try out mattresses being considered. Some things I wondered about: a) It does not appear to me that these mattresses are designed to be flippable -- is that correct? I realize that one can open the mattress cover and shuffle layers, but that is surely more complicated that rotating/flipping a mattress -- and when you are accustomed to rotating/flipping frequently . . . I wonder if that would be a problem. b) Has anyone used these on an adjustable bed? I realize that separate latex layers tend not to slide over one another readily, but I wonder whether the frequent movements of an adjustable bed might cause them to get out of alignment, develop bumps where one layer bent more and the layer above bent less as the bed went up, etc. c) If one wished to change firmness or to replace a damaged layer after the 90 period, does Flobeds sell layers individually? QUESTION 3: Does anyone have any mattress suggestions they think would be better for our situation than the Organipedic or Flobed possibilities mentioned? QUESTION 4: I realize the forum topic is mattresses, not adjustable beds, but some here do seem to know about them. She currently has a twin extra long adjustable bed that works fairly well but I'd been wondering: a) Does anyone know of a maker/model of adjustable bed that has substantial height adjustment capacity? Her current bed has none, and all we've been able to find has about 12 inches of height adjustment in the middle height range. What I wish we could find is one that could go completely down to the floor and up to something a little above standard height. She has had times where she fell or got down on the floor and it was *very* difficult to get her up -- not because she was injured but because it's hard to help her when one shouldn't put pressure on her arms, shoulders or back. We've been kidding her about needing a monorail and harness like they used for Barbaro or some other type of "Momavator" that could elevate her from the floor, but we'd been thinking that if there was an adjustable bed that went really low, it might be a serious way to deal with such situations. And the ability to raise the height to a little above standard would be useful if she had a bedfast episode, which we try to avoid but which has happened in the past. b) Does anyone know of any reason it would be inappropriate to put larger wheels on her existing adjustable bed if they could be made to fit? We currently have her bed's feet on contoured blocks (blocks that elevate the bed's four feet but don't allow them to roll off the blocks) because the tiny wheels on the bed's feet sink into the carpet and make dents and because we want the room to be Roomba-friendly so the bottom of the bed needs to be high enough for Roomba to clear. Larger wheels might make it possible to eliminate the blocks, move the bed more easily, and keep Roomba happy. Thanks for any thoughts, JLJ
Stay away from memory foam if she has limited mobility |
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LOL ... I think we're long past that point mr "expert". Did you actually take the time to read this thread? Phoenix |