Mattress Forum

Do they put extra support in the middle of a king bed (I have only dealt with queens)?  If not, then it sounds like the springs have definitely lost something.  The springs in the middle (assuming no extra support there) are probably close to the firmness was like when new (since they don't get used much), and the sides are broken in and less firm now.

I have one further thought.  What is the box spring like?  Does that seem too soft?  That could be part of the problem as well.

Budgy, if you are out there do you have any opinions on this?

 

You're right, the middle feels like it did when we bought it (and now I sleep there whenever I can).

We opted to skip the box spring, assuming the slats would suffice. The mattress people didn't try to talk us out of it. Was that a mistake? As I said, in addition to being relatively new to latex and I'm also very new to spring mattresses.

Little did we know the can of worms we were opening by buying our first "real" bed.

It is pretty unusual to have an innerspring with no box spring.  I am not sure what impact that might have.  If anything, I would think it would be firmer, because a box spring has some give.  I know they say a box spring increases the life of a mattress, but I always assumed that was marketing hype.  Maybe something to it.

So, you have a metal frame with center supports and wood slats (or are they metal?) going across horizontally about 3" apart?  A picture would be helpful!   How thick and sturdy are the slats?  If those are sagging, that could be the problem.  Not sure if that would happen over time, since they did not seem to be a problem when it was new.

One test (a big hassle I know) would be to try the mattress directly on the floor.  If it still seems to dip too much, then it probably is a lost cause.  Frimer latex might help, but it seems to me that it should be firm enough with just 2" of 32 on the springs.  For most of us that would be too firm.
 

I'm posting a picture from below (please forgive the dust bunnies).

I'll see if I can get the mattress on the floor later.

If you had some help, maybe you could lie on it and someone else look underneath to see if the slats are dipping down.  They might have to hold up a yardstick or something like that next to one of the middle slats to tell. 

Certainly the floor test would tell you for sure how much firmer it could be with a different platform/box spring.

So, maybe my indictment of the springs was a little unfair. They definitely have lost some of their firmness, but the dip might not be as significant as I thought. And I guess it's an argument in favor of using a box spring on a slat bed.

But in this case I suspect a box spring wouldn't solve the firmness problem. As you say, sandman, it might make the bed even softer.

And it sounds like replacing the medium toppers I have with something firmer won't solve the spring softness problem either.

Which brings me back to where I started. Sort of.

I've been doing a bit more reading at some of the complete latex bed stores online. FSF mentions that people accustomed to futons tend to like to sleep on a firm top over an extra firm core. Given my preferences, Flobeds recommends a firm and extra firm combo. All of this has got me to wondering if the two medium pieces I have from FBM might ultimately be of no use to me. It's hard to know, though, because I don't entirely know what ILD the FBM pieces are. Maybe 32. For FSF, firm ranges from 29-34.

If I have to buy all the pieces it would get expensive to DIY it.

At SLAB, getting two 3" cores and 2" of something else will run us more than $1,600. Add a case and a mattress pad and we'll be at $2,000 (Foamsource, the only other place that seems to sell F & XF components charges even more). $2,000 is about what it costs to get a complete setup at Sleepez and FSF. Sleepez might actually be a little cheaper...

Well, at least you are able to sort figure this out by trial and error.  I was hoping that on the floor it would feel firm enough for you to use with a solid foundation.  But it sounds like it is not enough of an improvement?  Maybe you would have to sleep with it on the floor to really know?  I still would indict the springs a bit, because they should not have changed that much in a couple of years.  I am not sure if the slats would have speeded up the aging process.  That is a possiblity.

FBM has a weird reputation for quality, so hard to say exactly what ILD you have.  It is possible that it is something less.  Does it feel pretty dense and somewhat firm (kind of hard tell really just buy squeezing unless you have a basis of comparison)?   By the way, Flobeds firm is ~32ILD, so firm on top would in theory be like your FBM.  Some here have used 3  3" layers of XF with the convoluted layer on top.  It is possible that you like things firmer than just about anyone in this Forum. 

There is definite value in going the total package route:  you get a wool filled cover, you can exchange layers to get the right fit, you can have each side different, you can return the whole thing if nothing works out.

You still might need a foundation.  Here is what the Flobeds one looks like.  It is 3/4" fir and bolted on the sides.  Are you slats bolted down?  How thick are they?  If they are not bolted they might sag slightly more because they can pull in a little from the sides .  Yours also looks they might be thinner than 3/4", but hard to tell from the picture.
 

Our slats are 1/2" or thereabouts. Not bolted but pretty firmly fixed in place with rubbery end-cap sleeves.

Do the package beds require a separate mattress pad? I'm thinking most particularly of Sleepez, which has the firmness options I like, a good rep, and prices I can stomach (somewhat). At lot of them talk about wool in their descriptions of their covers, but I'm not sure if they expect you to use a pad in addition or if the cover suffices. FSF is one that prices pads separately. I'm wondering if I need to be adding $200 more for that to the package price.

Given the uncertainty of the FBM pieces and my inexperience with latex, a returnable/swappable package is starting to look like a smarter approach, especially if the price difference isn't that great.

Here is rollout slat foundation.  They use 3/4" slats 1.5" or 2" apart.  So, I have a feeling your slats probably flex a bit more than most foundations.  I am not sure if that is a problem, but probably not optimal.  Can you add more slats to it?  You may want to add or move some towards the center. 

One thing that some people have done to shore up a sagging mattress is to put some towels or something like that on top of the box spring in the sagging area.  That may be difficult on your slat foundation and probably a tempory fix at best.

You can use any mattress pad you want.  A good one might be a plus (St. Dormier wool filled), but probalby not necessary if you have one already.  If you find it too hot with a cheaper on, then you may want to buy a better one. 

As an experiment, the last two nights I've slept with a piace of 1/4" plywood on top of the slats beneath my lower back. Not quite as good as the hump, but better than it was. Today I'm trying with a piece of 1x4 that I've trimmed to fit snuggly between the slats below my pelvis, raising my hips a bit to take the pressure off the lower back. We'll see how that works. It probably won't do my hips any favors if I roll onto my side, but it's worth a try. If all else fails, I may cover all the slats with a 1/2" piece of plywood, and then the entire bed should feel like the hump. 

Who knows, maybe another alternative to Lovegasoline's idea about a stiffening agent.