Different kinds of springs and other info
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattress From the page above: "Spring mattress core The core of the mattress supports the sleeper’s body. Modern spring mattress cores, often called "innersprings," are made up of steel coil springs, or "coils." The gauge of the coils is another factor which determines firmness and support. Coils are measured in quarter increments. The lower the number, the thicker the spring. In general, higher-quality mattress coils have a 14-gauge (1.63 mm) diameter. Coils of 14 to 15.5-gauge (1.63 to 1.37 mm) give more easily under pressure, while a 12.5-gauge (1.94 mm) coil, the thickest typically available, feels quite firm. Connections between the coils help the mattress retain its shape. Most coils are connected by interconnecting wires; encased coils are not connected, but the fabric encasement helps preserve the mattress shape. Here are five types of mattress coils:
Bonell springs are hour-glass shaped, which means their resistance increases with load. They are therefore best suited for firm mattresses. [my emphasis] Pocket springs provide support along the entire length of the body. This design works to maintain natural spinal alignment throughout the night. |
Re: Different kinds of springs and other info
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Budgy, you make a good point about what a mattress should cost now adjusted for inflation. If they use to charge $1000 20-30 years ago for a quality mattress, it probably should be at least $2,500- $3,000 now. I can't remember what I paid for a Sealy Posterpedic 22 years ago, but I think it was around $700-800. It was definitely constructed better (and heavier) than the stuff they put out today. It didn't have much in the way of wool or cotton padding though, so I assume a better more comfortable one back then would have cost even more. It seems like you have to buy from a smaller brand now to get a quality product and avoid the junky foams. The mattress industry seems to have gone the way of some other industries like the airlines. They are in constant competition to reduce costs and show cheap prices. As a result, they have degraded their "product" over time. Consumers contribute to this some what, because they will generally take the airline that has the cheapest cost, even if their service is worse. However, one can put up with a few uncomfortable hours on plane, but having 8 hours of misery every night it a totally different matter. Will consumers wake up and start demanding a better product (by not buying the junk)? Maybe most are getting by okay, and don't want to spend the extra money. However, if they have to replace the mattress more frequently, they are not really saving money. A friend of mine might be in the market for an innerspring. I told him about the Royal-pedic, and he seems interested in that. Are there any other brands that you recommend in the U.S. that are "reasonably" priced? |
Re: Different kinds of springs and other info
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budgy wrote: i really don't wanna shift the blame where it doesn't truly belong, but consumers did keep on buying them right? Its kinda like using your wallet to speak for you and say 'yeah I want a big thick pillowtop bed that looks like its worth 2 grand instead of a bed thats actually worth 2 grand'. And of course we have uneducated sales people (or misleading ones depending on how much they really know) that tell people these beds will still easily last 10 plus years. The other ironic thing with it all....especially with the really thick beds, there has to be a point where the innerspring itself would make virtually no difference in how you sleep because you could have 6" or more foam inbetween the sleeper and the spring system, at which point its basically like sleeping on an all poly foam mattress. I do blame the manufacturers mostly because of their greed and poor management, they no longer cared about good products or warranties, or even return customers. Yes consumers kept buying them, I think they kept trying different brands thinking this brand has to be better. I never fell into the trap of big pillowtops, but it was increasingly difficult to find any decent mattresses at all. Okay I fell for the gimmick of Sealy Truform, I confess. If it sounds too good to be true it is. But I never tried anymore memory foam and foam mattress combinations. Nor would I put latex over foam. Okay I turned the Sealy Truform over and put latex toppers over that; it didn't work! The foam broke down, never ever will I use regular foam again as a base. The internet has helped consumers GREATLY because reviews are out there now for all to see. They can't hide their poor products anymore, but now it is too late. Selection is bad because companies are closing doors. Smaller companies may prevail in this economy, time will tell. This message was modified Jan 31, 2010 by Leo3
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Re: Different kinds of springs and other info
| in the coil mattress segment...nope. they seem to be the best overall value for the money from what I have seen. |
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I have to say after further research I found Simmons filed chapter 11, and than I find an article they have new mattress line. I read they have kept changing hands over the years. I have read that about Spring Air too. So are their any mattress S companies that have not filed chapter 7 or 11 or whatever? Are any of them really the original owners? I doubt that. Why does this never make the news? I have stopped watching the news because it really isn't news. This message was modified Jan 31, 2010 by Leo3
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Re: Different kinds of springs and other info
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http://www.beddingcomponents.com/innersprings.asp This is from Leggett and Platt website. Now can someone tell me which mattresses use what components? On the right hand column you can download the .pdf on bonnell and Marshall coil. I am STILL trying to find out what my Spring Air from 15 years ago has. I think Bonnell obviously, but those are the firmest from what I understand. I am not even sure if the bed manufacturers still are using these. Who knows? |
Re: Different kinds of springs and other info
| a 312 bonnell coil from leggett and platt is used by probably over a hundred small manufacturers in north america |
Re: Different kinds of springs and other info
| Thanks Budgy, so are you saying Spring Air USE to use Bonnell coils? I guess it doesn't matter, but I am so darn curious now. What was common for the S manufacturers 15 years ago? I believe Simmons used the wrapped coils, Marshal coils I believe. But then I see it could be hinged springs. Do you know what they used back then? You are probably too young LOL, to know. |
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Simmons Beautyrest for a very long time has only been independent pocket coils. In Beautysleep (not sure if that line existed in the US, its also done now as far as I know) was Bonnell coils for a long time, and they also did some continuous springs in their lowest end models. Sealy Posturepedic was a double offset coil since the 50's and more recently triple offsets, and some other small variations have come and gone, newest Posturepedics (last couple of years) could be offset or pocket coil. Spring Air....I honestly don't know. That company to me is a little bit more of an unknown because they have changed ownership so many times and in my region they have never been all that popular. So I couldn't tell you what they used back in the day. Nowadays they use a lot of continuous springs in the lowest end product, bonnell coils in some limited quantities and some cheap pocket coils in some beds just above those in terms of pricing. Although I have seen a lot of retailers selling the continuous springs as a big price jump over the bonnell units, I think thats just a big cash grab. In the whole industry the two most used coils that seem to keep on cropping up are in a queen size a 390 coil count bonnell spring that can come in quite a few different gauges of wire. As well as a 720 coil count continuous spring...interestingly I think the bonnell is typically a much stronger and more expensive coil. I can definitely tell you from my earlier days in this business working in a cheap discount schlock house I used to unload a lot of both of them, and the bonnell coils were a LOT heavier. |
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Thanks for the info. I thought you were too young to know, guess I was wrong. But Spring Air was popular in the US here. I thought they didn't start changing hands until 5 years ago. They were changing hands before that??? I knew Simmons had the wrapped kind, at least when I went looking you can feel the difference on those mattresses. I never thought those wuld hold up in the long run. Do they? Doesn't matter now though Simmons is gone, but maybe someone will revive them. |
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budgy wrote: no, I think I certain degree of understanding is required. the problem is, every time they made changes they marketed them as being good for the consumer. well once they started getting rid of cotton batting in favour of foams, then the only way to still sell a bed at 2 or 3 thousand (which they do offer in some cases) is to put more foam in it, which ironically makes for an even poorer mattress design. i really don't wanna shift the blame where it doesn't truly belong, but consumers did keep on buying them right? Its kinda like using your wallet to speak for you and say 'yeah I want a big thick pillowtop bed that looks like its worth 2 grand instead of a bed thats actually worth 2 grand'. And of course we have uneducated sales people (or misleading ones depending on how much they really know) that tell people these beds will still easily last 10 plus years. The other ironic thing with it all....especially with the really thick beds, there has to be a point where the innerspring itself would make virtually no difference in how you sleep because you could have 6" or more foam inbetween the sleeper and the spring system, at which point its basically like sleeping on an all poly foam mattress. That last sentence is just the point I was making to Leo, I think, about how sleeping on more than 3" of foam on top of my mattress - for me - negates the working of the mattress springs. I can see maybe going to 4" or so, in some cases, if it's good quality, but like you say, after that the springs seem superfluous. Yes, of course they marketed the No-Flip as a great thing for consumers! It's funny but people DO hate and procrastinate moving their bed! I procrastinate just rotating mine, so I know. But really, the companies knew these beds weren't going to last. But you are right, people bought them... But at the same time, look back on it: Let's say all the S Co's have just changed to No Flip and you're Average Joe and Jane Doe walking into a mattress store. You have no reason to believe that the mattresses they are selling will be any worse than what was sold before and you had your last mattress for 20 years! You buy one and after 6 months you start to notice some back aches and after a year you need to find a new bed. You decide to buy a different brand this time and you do and let's say that one lasts 2 years, this time... My point is that it took people at least 3-5 years - or more - to begin "catching on" to the fact that these are poorly made mattresses! So it took consumers at least 10 years to catch up to the fact that ALL the Big S companies - who surely must account for 80-90% of all mattress sales, especially 15 years ago - had now started producing inferior products. Even now people don't know because many people are sleeping on beds that are 20 years old. So when you say "People kept buying them", yes, because they'd buy one from one company and assume the next one from a different S Co would be better. Who'da thunk that EVERY major (S) company was now selling inferior products? Even I wasn't cynical enough to think that.  I bought a Simmons in 1997 or so and then bought a Sealy when that wore out... It took me a cycle of 2 bad mattresses before I began to suspect there was something rotten in Mattress Land. And I had internet to research it and was inclined to do so. Go back to the 90's and not as many people had internet nor were inclined to use it for research like this. So my point is, it took people a long time to realize the wool was being pulled over their eyes re mattress quality. Additionally all the salespeople - honest or not - were sayng this technology is better, this spring system is better, etc... so you figure "Oh, I see, those last 2 mattresses I bought used the wrong technology... this one will be better.  This time I'll spend more money, I'll get the $1400 one instead of the $1000 one..."  One more quick point: I talked to my friend today whose guest bed I slept on in December for a few nights. I really liked it but forgot to ask what it was. So today I said "I bet you it was at least 10-12 years old and it's a no-flip and it hasn't been used that much." He said, "Yes, it is about 15 years old, it was used by my wife for a few years and then it's been in here in the guest room since we've been married (12 years), so hasn't been used much." I was telling him to take care of it and never sell it but instead fix it if it needs it because he'd never get another one like that. He is a very sharp consumer yet was very surprised to hear that now everything is no-flip because he has not bought a mattress for 15 years. So you see - the point is, even now people can walk into a mattress store and have no idea how the quality has changed since their last mattress. So they'll buy one or two or three - before they even realize ...they're ALL bad. By the way that great mattress my friend has is a 15 year old Spring Air! Ha! Now counted as the bottom of the barrel... This message was modified Feb 1, 2010 by jimsocal
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