Mattress Forum

Leo, I am sorry you are in this boat with me, but misery does love company. I totally feel your pain regarding cleaning the shower floor. I recently had to clean our bathroom FOUR TIMES in one week! Long story, but suffice to say that it happened, and each time it totally tweaked my back and shoulders and such. But as you say, Who else is going to do it?

I have tried several different chairs and though they say they are "good for the back" they don't seem to be good for MY back, at all! I have not bought any of the really expensive ones, for this reason. I have one of those curved-back rocking chair things that were popular in the 80's and I always thought it was good for my back but then I began to think it wasn't. Now I don't know.
Then I bought one of those types that has the "zero gravity" design, where your legs are up somewhat and your head is back/down... and that hurt my back....
Seems no matter what I sit in, it hurts my back, unless I sit totally upright without leaning back at all. This may be the "right" way to sit, but it gets VERY tiresome and uncomfortable if you're trying to relax and watch tv. I mean, when you go to the movies aren't you tired of sitting in those seats by the time it's over?

So I don't even know what design of a chair is even good for me anymore. Nothing I've tried seems to work.

I wish they'd invent zero-gravity atmosphere inside our homes so we could just float like in a space capsule. Seems like that would be comfortable enough...

At least my mattress isn't killing me. I am sleeping pretty well without too much tossing and turning. It isn't as comfortable as it was that first 2 weeks, but it does seem to be doing the trick. My back is only somewhat sore and stiff in the a.m., not totally sore and stiff like it was before I replaced the HR foam with latex.

Jim, so is the mattress still giving you a bit of back problems?   Still think it is the latex softening?

If so, I wonder if the dunlop would ever soften up enough to be okay.   I have not really noticed softening of my latex, but if it happens gradually, I am not sure I would notice.  My back is not as sensitive as yours.

Have you ever checked to see if the springs sag much?  I layed directly on my springs (with the thin foam over it), and it seems pretty firm.  I did not notice a lot of give.  I wonder how many coils are in your mattress?

I am glad Jim, that your bed is not torturing as much.  Cleaning a shower 4 times would put me in the hospital, so I can see why you were in such pain.  I would have liked to clean the groutlines more, but I couldn't.  I would like to have a spotless shower floor, but it is the best I could do.  I would like to have a new shower floor, it has always been ugly from when we moved in.  Whine, whine, whine.  Did you have a new shower put in?

This had NOTHING to do with mattresses, so you can skip it, but Leo and I are sharing our bathroom cleaning blues.

Yes, cleaning the shower and bathroom 4 times in one week did FEEL like it was about to put me in the hospital! We have a bathtub type, so the floor is not as hard to clean as a shower floor especially a tile shower floor. I found out recently that the best way to clean tile and bathtubs is with a razor scraper. It's like an ice scraper for a car except narrower, and has a sharp razor-type blade in it. This takes soap scum right off, very easy. (Well, still a lot of work, but much less work than scrubbing with comet and so on. Try it!)

No, we didn't have a new shower put in, we had a guy re-caulk all around the shower. I had to clean before he came because it was embarrasingly dirty. That was cleaning #1.
Cleaning #2 was after he caulked and left the bathroom and tub a dirty mess.
Cleaning #3 was after the painter came to re-paint after the caulking, and HE left the bathroom a dirty mess!
Cleaning #4 was just coincidence because we had a new toilet put in the same week! So I had to clean up after HIS big mess! Granted, the first one was the hardest but the other 3 were no picnic.

At least we didn't have to pay for any of this; we live in an apartment.

But I paid for it with back pain.

However, I do NOT think my mattress feeling uncomfortable was due to my back pain; I think my back hurting was due to my mattress. This is because during the 2 weeks in which my mattress felt great, one day I did a lot of back-hurting work, and when I went to bed that night my back actually felt BETTER, I even posted about this - how it seemed that my new mattress had "cured" my back pain!

I also recall when I was on a working vacation, and I did a bunch of hard work, bending and reaching and so on, my back got really sore; but when I went to bed that night in a mattress that felt good to me, my back did not hurt when I woke up. (Unfortunately that was in another country and I cannot get a mattress like that here.)

So I am convinced that when one goes to bed and one's back doesn't hurt, and one wakes up with back pain, it is because of the mattress, Period.

Sandman, my mattress is still giving me problems. Or, I should say, SOMEthing is still giving me problems that occur during the night and go away after I get up and move around. IT's not as bad as it was before getting my Englander and not as bad as it was before changing out the HR foam for latex.

I followed you guys' advice and did NOT change my bed at all except for taking off the wool mattress cover, and I woke up with a little pain and stiffness each morning but it was manageable. However, it was getting worse after about 2 weeks of this, so I finally decided to try changing my mattress, today.

I did put the Dunlop 1 and 3/4" layer on the bottom right over the springs. I got rid of the 1/2" HR foam that was on the bottom and the 1/4" memory foam that was right on top of the springs (under the HR) just to prevent the springs from imprinting the foam. So now I have NO HR foam at all, all latex:
bottom up:
1 and 3/4" Dunlop natural, 32ILD
3/4" latex about 34-36 ILD (note this is the same latex layer I've used for a few years, never knew the ILD of it but my wife and I both decided that it is a little FIRMER not softer than the new 32ILD natural Talalay I bought, so that would make it maybe 34-36ILD. Hard to tell when it's only 3/4" thick but this is my new estimation of the ILD.)
1" natural Talalay 32ILD
No topper, just 2 sheets on top of it.

I checked the springs. They are a little softer in the middle where my hips are, and I've only had the mattress what? 9 months or so? And I have rotated it once. So this COULD be the problem. I'm not THAT fat (about 15lb extra around the middle), so I don't know why it would have broken in this much. These are 12.5 gauge springs, very heavy, so I find this kind of amazing that they show some softness in the middle after this short of a time!

Is it the problem? Could be... who knows?

This had NOTHING to do with mattresses, so you can skip it, but Leo and I are sharing our bathroom cleaning blues.

Yes, cleaning the shower and bathroom 4 times in one week did FEEL like it was about to put me in the hospital! We have a bathtub type, so the floor is not as hard to clean as a shower floor especially a tile shower floor. I found out recently that the best way to clean tile and bathtubs is with a razor scraper. It's like an ice scraper for a car except narrower, and has a sharp razor-type blade in it. This takes soap scum right off, very easy. (Well, still a lot of work, but much less work than scrubbing with comet and so on. Try it!)

Who knows is probably right.  It might be a contributing factor.   I know that you did not pay a lot for the mattress, so I have always wondered if/how they cut corners somewhere.  Cheaper steel?  Less coils?  One thing you have to remember is that it is not only the gauge of the coils but the quanity as well.  It would be interesting if you could approximate the number of coils at some point.  I also assume that they are interlaced?  I think Budgy said once that the steel interlacing the coils is cheaper now than it use to be, so that might go bad more quickly.

I noted a month or two ago that when I was trying out Sealy mattressses, the ones with higher gauge but significantly more coils, seemed firmer and more supportive than the ones with less thicker lower gauge coils. 

Having said all of that, I am sure that over the 3-4 week period that you have been using the new latex that the coils would not have changed much.  So, I doubt this would explain the sudden reversal.  However, if they are sagging more than they should (obviously they need to compress a bit with weight, otherwise what is the point), then it will probably be more difficult for you to ever get the right support.