I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
I know I could do a search. I know I've done so before. Right now I am just soooo not in the mood to go back and look for and read latex info.  I want to buy 1" or 2" of Dunlop latex (because I've slept on Talalay and never Dunlop; want to try the Dunlop). Can someone remind me who has it cheapest? I know I investigated this 4-5 months ago but I have completely forgotten. I took all memory foam out of my mattress last night and slept better than I have in weeks. Still woke up with a sore back, but much better. The only other time I tried it without the memory foam was when I used 2 x 1" of my soft latex and I think that was too much soft foam for me. Now I'm back to 1" of soft latex without the memory foam and it's better, but I do guess that my HR foam has crapped out, so time to replace it with latex. What ILD do you recommend for my bottom layer(s) over my springs? When my bed was working for me, I only had 1" of HR foam over the springs so I am guessing that should do it with the latex as well. I think the ILD I used was about 32, so with Dunlop I might want to go with 28? or would that be too soft? (as I recall, Dunlop is naturally firmer than Talalay so you use a lower ILD, no?) Also, I'm not sure - maybe I can find this in my receipt somewhere - the HR foam might have been as high as 36ILD. I had 3 ILD's one firm, one medium and one very firm, and I used the medium sometimes and the firm sometimes, but don't recall the exact ILD's. This message was modified Jan 10, 2010 by jimsocal
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Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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Kait wrote: Budgy, you are a font of information and I appreciate all the input you have given about latex! I will also have to re-read it about 63 more times to totally absorb it, but will copy it over to a file so I can refer back to it in the future. I know latex is an extremely long lasting foam, and now I understand why. I have not used it in my bed layering due to two reasons. One, I had a latex bed once, mattress that was supposed to be 100% latex throughout(before I knew anything about ilds and such). On the sales floor, it was dreamy. At home, I didn't sleep all that well on it. I sweated, my hubby sweated a LOT, it never gave me that aaaaahhhh feeling when I went to bed. Then it developed a butt-dent, so I gave it away. It was super duper heavy to move, but it was a CA king. Later on, I bought a latex topper from a natural latex company but it was too boingy to sleep on for me...every time I turned around, I bounced and woke myself up! Also seemed to sleep hot, under the thick mattress pad and sheet. Wish that there was a foam that was long lasting and not so bouncy and sweaty as latex. What is your company name? There are some Canadian posters on here that might like to know where you are. Kait I think unless I am PM'ed I would prefer to keep my company name somewhat confidential, only because I think it would be unfair to promote ourselves on a public forum with out paying for it. I wonder what kind of mattress pad you were using, because latex itself is pretty breathable, however its not designed to wick away moisture. It is of my belief that the top most layer in pretty much every bed should be natural materials, cotton or wool filled pads or quilted layers in the mattress usually alleviate any concerns with heat. We also carry Tempur-Pedic which is notorious for sleeping hot, we are actually at the point where we typically recommend from day one people use a wool filled pad instead of a water proof one on them, as so far any customers that have complained about heat we have been able to solve it for them by giving them a wool filled pad after the fact. When you look at most of the true premium latex beds on the market they all have one thing in common, wool quilting layers and cotton covers. The other thing is that most mattress manufacturers now-a-days build latex mattress in atleast some limited capacity, most of these non specialty brands tend to upholster polyurethane foam into the top quilted layers of the beds making them sleep a little bit hottter and of course making them more prone to develop body indentations. But yeah latex is definitely not for everyone, and the very 'best' quality rubber in reality is also the bounciest lol. For most people this isn't a big issue but I could definitely understand not liking that kind of bounce in a pillow. But I do hear you on the bounciness of rubber, some people do not like it. We are exploring new options to give people alternatives, some hand made pocket coil mattresses with basically just a small amount of rubber on top or perhaps no foam at all, I am sure a Hastens bed would last a long time but they are a little pricey. |
Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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Thanks for all the great info. Budgy! Do you know if there is any heat buildup difference between 100% natural dunlop and blended talalay? I have heard some people say that dunlop retains heat even more (possibly due to the higher density?). I am one of the rare people that finds latex too hot at times, even with the wool filled flobed cover and a wool filled natura mattress pad. I don't seem to get overly hot on a firm innerspring. This message was modified Jan 12, 2010 by sandman
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Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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Hi Budgy, Thanks for the info...it's very informative. I have been posting on the "Just bought a new Flobeds" thread and so I am finding your info helpful. Thanks for reconfirming that I am not imagining that my all natural Talalay is bouncier. I made some changes and it's doing better but I am wondering if this "bouncier" effect is part of the reason that the hip area is giving way more than the rest? (Or is it just a sign that I enjoyed the holiday eating too much as my friend suggested this am?! LOL. ) Seriously, since I am 5'7" and about 135 lbs (and female)...I wouldn't think that there is an extra weight issue so I am wondering what your thoughts are. Also, I apologize if I am repeating something already said somewhere but it has been a lot of information to take in but I didn't realize there was an all natural Dunlop? My impression was that the Dunlop was used more in the manufacturing process (big bed makers) as it was cheaper. I assume it's still firmer than the all natural Talalay but are saying that you feel the Talalay is still superior? Finally, what's PM'd? Curious if you will cough up your whereabouts somehow...we have a second home in Alberta that I am now convinced I am going to buy latex beds for when I get a chance. I suspect I know where you are however.... Thanks! TJ12
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Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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As far as heat retention differences I would imagine it to be nominal. Most people sleep warmer on a mattress that conforms to body shape simply because there is more contact with the mattress as opposed to a firmer innerspring. Wool will of course also keep you warm, just tends to be more bearable in the extremes because it at least keeps you dry. If your mattress already has wool quilted into it, then you would probably find a cotton or silk mattress pad would be even cooler than wool. Most truly natural latex foam is in reality dunlop. the cost difference in terms of what process is used is incredibly small. natural latex is however much more expensive, and in the case that most dunlop is denser that just means there is more latex. it takes approximately a full 8 hour day for a rubber tapper to collect enough rubber to make a queen mattress (6 inches thick), the talalay process may be slightly more expensive, but the extra rubber typically found in a natural dunlop core is far more expensive to collect. The worlds most expensive all latex bed uses all natural dunlop. I definitely wouldn't call talalay superior as a blanket statement, however when dealing with blended latex (synthetic and natural) yes talalay is a better process to use. Something tells me you might indeed have an idea of where we are lol. PM (Private Message) me if you wanna confirm your suspicions lol. |
Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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Latexco, a Belgian company, that has two locations in the United States, one in California and one in Georgia, is one of the world's largest manufacturers of latex. It looks to me like they tend to emphasize Dunlop. But they definitely make quite a bit of blended Dunlop according to their website. I am going to give you a link to one of their websites and a page that gives some excellent definitions regarding density, ILD (hardness), and resiliency. It makes for some interesting reading. http://www.latexco.com/tested-quality/ This message was modified Jan 12, 2010 by eagle2
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Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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definitely some good reading. they are really about the only company I know of that makes blended dunlop latex, although they are pretty unspecific as to the ratio used. That much I would be curious to know. The bit about Hysteresis essentially confirms numerically the extra bounce of natural rubber as it absorbs less energy than their blended dunlop. |
Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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eagle2 wrote: Latexco, a Belgian company, that has two locations in the United States, one in California and one in Georgia, is one of the world's largest manufacturers of latex. It looks to me like they tend to emphasize Dunlop. But they definitely make quite a bit of blended Dunlop according to their website. I am going to give you a link to one of their websites and a page that gives some excellent definitions regarding density, ILD (hardness), and resiliency. It makes for some interesting reading. http://www.latexco.com/tested-quality/ Now THAT is interesting. Their California location, in Buena Park, is not *too* far from me - maybe 1.5 hours. I'll have to take a drive over there. Their latex looks interesting. |
Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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Budgy, I have a question re latex that I'd like your opinion on. I found this page at sleepez.com : (http://www.sleepez.com/latex-mattress-buyers-guide.htm ) for an interesting discussion of various types of latex and processing. I'd be curious as to your opinion of this page's info. Now: I was going to buy a Natural Dunlop 1" layer from them but I found a review that makes me wonder about the quality of their latex. I'm not asking you to comment on sleepez as a company but rather I'm curious as to how this could have happened. This is what I'm talking about: A member of this forum (who no longer seems to post here) bought some latex from Sleepez and then wrote a great review but then later had problems. (By the way Sleepez has now successfully addressed the complaint and made the clients happy. But there is no explanation as to what happened. This is the complaint they had: (this is found in the Review section under SleepEz) "our topper failed and is permanently compressed to less than half the 3" it is supposed to be (for the second time).[i.e.; they got one replacement and it did the same thing] I also explained that there are large, permanent, uncomfortable 1-1/2" to almost 2" deep divots in our bed (measured and photographed). We put the topper on a brand new Sealy Latex Weybridge with matching boxspring. ...They were kind enough to switch out our Medium/Soft ILD topper when the first failed, but we only found that the second one compressed down and did the same thing." This is what I am confused about: I have always heard that good quality latex does not get impressions, certainly not in a short time (they said, 3 months). If it was on a new mattress, I figure it certainly could have sunk down into the cheap foam or synthetic latex (?) on the Sealy Weybridge. However, am I right in thinking that the latex itself should not have compressed, had body indentations in 3 months? They further write in their review: "When you put your hands on top and undernearth the topper where you sleep, you can feel the how thin the topper is compared to the edges. We are not heavy people either, me being 135 and my husband 190. This is product failure..." Since I am considering buying from this company, I'm curious as to whether or not they may be selling "crappy" latex, latex that craps out after a short time. The one I was going to buy claims to be Natural Dunlop. I'm not sure which one this couple had trouble with, as far as I can see they never said exactly which latex they bought. ( tried to contact them to ask but have not received a response.) My question, then, is: Is it possible that some latex could permanently compress and have body indentations in 3-6 months time under people of normal weight? Should I be suspect that Sleepez' latex is not of a high quality? Could it be that even though it's natural latex with Dunlop processing, it is not good latex? Again, I am not asking you to comment on Sleepez specifically, but maybe you can comment on my general questions that the Sleepez complaint brings up: Can and does decent quality latex sometimes compress like they describe? Also, again, let me note that this complaint has been resolved by Sleepez. The customer writes: [We received] "an equitable solution to the problems with our latex topper. Our faith in a good, caring business has been restored. Thank you SleepEZ for fixing our problems." But they don't say HOW it was resolved, so I don't know if it was the fault of the latex or not. Sorry for this long question but I figured if I provided the details maybe you could get an idea what the problem might have been. Also if anyone has any personal experience with Sleepez latex, especially the Dunlop natural latex, I'd love to hear your review. |
Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
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budgy wrote: definitely some good reading. they are really about the only company I know of that makes blended dunlop latex, although they are pretty unspecific as to the ratio used. That much I would be curious to know. The bit about Hysteresis essentially confirms numerically the extra bounce of natural rubber as it absorbs less energy than their blended dunlop. It looks like to me that Latexco is Dunlop only. But they will blend it to almost any configuration. 80% natural +20% synthetic, and the reverse of that, and other ratios as well. I have no scientific proof for my feelings. But after sleeping on 100% natural botanically grown latex processed by the Talalay method, and trying out very briefly a piece of blended Talalay latex, 70% synthetic and 30% natural, I prefer the 100% natural botanically grown latex. I have laid upon, but never slept upon, a 100% natural Dunlop mattress of latex. This was not enough time to form any concrete conclusion. But from everything I have read I would think it would make a great support core for a latex mattress. It tends to be more dense due to the manufacturing process from what I have read. I have also played around a great deal with the samples I was sent from both Savvy Rest and FlowBeds, both Talalay and Dunlop samples. These small samples are a very poor way to test latex. But since that's all I had I came to the belief that Dunlop produced a much firmer feel. There has been some discussion about latex feeling "bouncy" and/or "jiggly". These are the types of subjective terms that can be very misleading to people seeking answers who have no experience with latex mattresses and are quite confused. I personally have never felt that my mattress was either bouncy or jiggly. I think people using these terms are expressing a feeling that they have acquired because all of their experiences have been with innerspring mattresses. The very fact that an innerspring, by its very nature, has steel springs at its core give it an entirely different and more substantial feel. Since I came from 20 years of waterbeds, latex mattresses had a very solid substantive feel to them. In fact, at first, they felt too hard when I first laid on them. This led me to try out latex that was too soft and caused me pain. This whole business about mattresses certainly proves the old adage true. You just have to try it for yourself, over an extended period of time, and see what works for you. I am quite please with my FlowBeds with its firm configuration. It has taken me 90 days to get to this conclusion, but I am satisfied. When you're spending this kind of money over the Internet it is certainly a relief to be able to say this. This message was modified Jan 12, 2010 by eagle2
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Re: I am just plain lazy today ;-D - I need some info from latex buyers/users
| >Realistically most Dunlop latex is 100% natural and most talalay latex available is a blend, this is the main reason why you would typically be right in assuming dunlop will be denser and usually is... Chances are if you laid on a piece of dunlop latex that felt really dead it was either 100% synthetic or just an incredibly high ILD natural content.> Budgy, thanks for your incredibly helpful post - this is a really clear explanation of how latex works and I'm finally starting to get a handle on all this. I was confused by one thing, the quoted statement above. I thought you said that almost all Dunlop is 100% natural, and 100% natural is more resilient and bouncier than synthetic, and most Talalay is blended synthetic/natural -- so why is it that most folks seem to report based on experience that Dunlop feels more 'dead' and flat, less springy than Talalay? I tried 100% natural Talalay and while it was immensely comfortable just lying on it, in the end it didn't work for me due to back pain. It was both too soft, leading to sinking in some areas, and too firm, pushing back against my shoulders and upper back and creating strain (this is across different ILDs). But I loved the other qualities of latex so would like to try Dunlop at some point. But if it is in fact even bouncier (assuming all natural, good quality, etc.), I'm worried it won't resolve these issues. Many thanks! I know you're getting bombarded with questions from all of us seeking the 'expert' perspective. :-) |