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Hi there, I am looking for some advice on choosing between 2 mattresses. 1st a little history. I owned an Englander latex mattress for about 5 years. After the 4th year, it developed uncomfortable body impressions, just under 1.5" deep, so it didn't qualify for the warranty. So I went shopping for a new mattress 9 months ago. Sales person tried to get me to look at latex again, but I would have no part of it after my experience. So I went with a Sealy Posturpedic firm innerspring. It felt great for about 3 months, and now it too has very uncomfortable body impressions. The store has agreed to let me use their one time comfort exchange even though it is beyond the time limit. They carry the Sealy Embody line, which is a layer of latex ontop of a high density poly foam core. The one we are interested in(and the one we can afford) is the Inspiration. It has 3" of latex and 7" of the poly foam core. After my comfort exchange, I will have to pay another $1200 to get it. The other mattress we are considering is the Ikea Elsjford. It is 5.5" of synthetic latex, super firm, and no poly foam core, just latex. It is $599. I have read good things about Ikea latex mattresses. There are almost no reviews of the Embody line from Sealy because they are new. The Spring Free line had fairly good reviews, but they are no longer available here. So my question is......3" of natural latex ontop of 7" of poly foam or 5.5" of synthetic latex. The biggest thing we want to avoid are body impressions, and the poly foam core on the Sealy makes me nervous. Any help would truly be appreciated. Mike |
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Jimsocal: The Sealy Embody has 3" of what they call smart latex on top and that is on top of 7" probably HR base. There are only these 2 layers so there is no poly on top. They describe their smart latex as "continuous pour" so it is likely LI dunlop. Whether this is natural or blended is open to question but it is latex for sure. Even all synthetic latex would be less likely to develop body impressions than any polyfoam. There are some mattresses made by the "S" companies that use natural Dunlop and also Talalay (probably the blend) but IMO they are way overpriced and they mostly spoil them by adding polyfoam in the wrong places. The highest content of any of them is the Simmons natural care elite (Uses Talalay) which only has a 2" layer of poly and this is in the support layers not the comfort layers. They are good for doing research to see the kind of feel you like, especially the elite because it has a variety of layering combinations of Talalay of different densities in the various models. They even use quiltable latex in the top. And I love your efforts in "mattress surgery". Reddog: I think they have you between a rock and a hard place ... not unusual for many stores. They get you coming and going. First thing I want to say though ... and I don't mean to be hard here ... Is that you have come to believe that it was the latex that was causing the body impressions. This was probably because you were led to believe that the Englander had all latex in the top layers. This plays right into the hands of the mattress manufacturers as then people no longer differentiate between polyfoam and latex foam thinking that they both develop impressions anyway. Here's an example of one of their popular mattresses which has 2" of poly over the latex and yet in many places is being sold under the "impression" that you are sleeping on latex https://www.gotomattress.com/p-201-englander-natures-finest-latex-3000-plush-mattress.aspx Even the firm model has 1.25" of poly over the latex. They do sell all latex but they are much more expensive so most places don't even carry them.
There are several places on the net where the Embody insightful King SET is available for around $2250 so lets use their own logic against them. Lets say that the boxspring is $515 (using their valuation and assuming that it would be a similar boxspring) ... that means that the insightful mattress alone should be $1735 They are willing to give you $585 for your mattress (after charging you $199) That means that they should be willing to sell you the insightful for 1735 - 585 = $1150. Now they have already made a decent profit on you and the prices I am using have a profit built into them since the retailer they came from is not a charity so they should be willing to go even lower than this say $1050 for the upgrade Now I realize that they will never do this but I'm just giving an example of how they work and how they even use a comfort exchange to increase their profits. Armed with this you should at the very least be able to get your comfort exchange for less if you choose to go in this direction.
On to the ikea. I really don't think this is an appropriate mattress for an adult. It is less than 6" and although it is made of latex, it is completely synthetic latex (and probably dunlop) which is the worst kind of the best material. Usually an adult of normal weight would need a mattress a little thicker than this although if I was going to go to a thinner mattress at least I would go to all latex. This of course would depend on different factors including your own preferences and weight and weight distribution but typically a mattress like this would not be so great for an adult. YMMV There are also many places where you can buy 6" of a higher quality and even zoned latex for the same or less. I would tend though to go with 8" of latex or more with a firmer core and a softer top 2". The softer top could still be "relatively" firm but not as firm as the core. I doubt that you would have body impression issues with either the embody or the ikea ... but both ways it seems to me it is the store that is the big winner ... not you. Phoenix PS: I used Queen prices in the original post by mistake. Changed to reflect King prices. Now instead of saying you are being gouged, I would downgrade my assessment and say you are being taken advantage of. You should be able to get your comfort exchange for less if you choose to go in that direction. This message was modified Oct 18, 2010 by Phoenix
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Hi Phoenix, I have definetly come to realize it was not the latex that is responsible for the body impressions. I'm guessing you are completely accurate in that the Englander had Poly foam in the comfort layer. And the innerspring mattress we have now definetely does. I just checked the tag and it is over 60% Poly foam in the top layers. And i'm not worried about body impressions being caused by the latex, I was worried about the poly foam core in the Insightful leading to them eventually, but if that worry is not justified then I might just go with the Insightful....I just wish it had more then 3" of latex. The Sealy Embody Shelter has 6.5" of latex ontop of a 6" poly core, but the price tag on that is much more.....$2950-$585 means I still have to pay $2365. Also very comfortable though. Yes I feel like they have me, but if i'm going to end up happy in the end, I don't mind giving them a little more of my money. |
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Nothing is absolute but the single biggest contributor to body impressions is poly in the comfort layers. the HD and HR foams used in support layers is generally good quality (this of course is relative) and is not being compressed nearly as much and as often as poly in the comfort layers would be. It is also higher density (and higher ILD) than the poly that is used in comfort layers so usually ... assuming that they are using good quality "support foam" which they probably are ... impressions are not a problem. The tempurpedics for example (and almost all memory foam mattresses) all use poly in the support layers and it is generally much more durable than the memory foam on top of it. If you decide to do an exchange for the embody, do a quick search on the web and you will see several places where the insightful king is being sold for $2249 including the foundation and you would have free shipping and no tax. You may want to print at least two of these out and take them to the store with you if/when you negotiate for the price of the comfort exchange. Also, the beautyrest mattress you bought needs an boxspring and the embody doesn't. Granted it's characteristics may be different with a different foundation than they have it on in the store but it doesn't need one. Typically an all foam mattress only needs a platform and these can be purchased for much less than they are "charging" for your boxspring. You may want to ask them if you can exchange the foundation as well since you won't need a boxspring with the embody and that may help you bypass their attempt to discount the price of your mattress for the purposes of the comfort exchange. One last comment is that I would make darn sure that the insightful is providing you with the correct level of comfort/pressure relief AND support/spinal alignment if you "upgrade". While I realize that it may be your only real option in terms of a comfort exchange, if the mattress is not "right" for you ... it is not worth it at any price. It could be too easy to go for it only because you have such limited options instead of truly making sure that it is really suitable for YOU. As I mentioned before, $1200 could buy you an all latex, or even partly latex mattress that I would personally choose over the insightful and you could end up with a "spare bed" and a better latex mattress for the same price as you would have paid for the mattress alone. For that matter if you exchanged the beautyrest for a new one of the same value, you could then sell the new mattress/boxspring on craigslist and add whatever you get for it (650 would be half price which is not bad for an unused mattress/boxspring) to your budget and get an absolutely amazing mattress with a little higher budget. Phoenix PS: just for reference, I bought a queen size custom made 2 sided all talalay latex mattress with a 4" core, 3" of latex on either side, quilted on both sides with quiltable latex and a down substitute fibre, damask ticking, specially re-inforced for an adjustable bed for $1697.75 including $287.80 freight and of course no tax. This message was modified Oct 18, 2010 by Phoenix
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It seems that they are kind of ripping you off on the value of the box spring @ $515. Most of them go for around $200-300. Is there anything special about it - high quality with real springs? Or is it one of the cheap ones they use now a days (which includes the Posterpedic Shock Absorber box spring), which is mainly a steel platform with a little spring to it. Here is one, maybe not as good as yours, at Sears for $100. You can get a whole king size Posterpedic mattress and box springs for $859 delivered and the mattress has to be a big part of the cost. I would also say that $1700 for 7" of HR foam and 3" of latex is pretty expensive as well. You can get all latex for roughly that price. I guess you are kind of stuck since the only place you can get money toward a purchase is from them. I assume you could not sell the mattress for $500+. So, you have to decide whether you want to throw more money their way. As Jimsocal said, you can probably get a better result for less by cutting it open and putting in your own latex. That is a whole other game though. This message was modified Oct 18, 2010 by sandman
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Ok, as far as price goes.....I missed a little with the numbers......For the Sealy Posturepedic Gold collection I paid 1289.98, $785.62 for the mattress, 207.18 for each box spring(x2) and $89.99 for a mattress pad/cover. It was free delivery but I did pay tax. So the price for the box springs was $414. If I add that to the $1781.99 they quoted me for the Insightful mattess that is $2195.99. So that actually doesn't compare too bad to what else is out there for that mattress. To be honest, I don't have the time or patience for doing mattress surgery, although it does sound like a good idea if I did. Not sure about taking an equal mattress and then selling on craigslist. Sounds like an excellent idea, but a little more work then I might have time for. Will still consider it though. It sounds like if the choice was between shelling out another $1200 for the Insightful vs. $599 for the Ikea, at least Phoenix would lean toward the Insightful. I understand that neither would be your 1st (or 2nd choice) but maybe my only options. Would I be crazy to consider the Sealy Embody Shelter for $2951.99 which would involve me spending another $2366.99??? That is the one with 6.5 of smart latex ontop of 6 of HD foam. BTW, thanks to all of you for the input. Mike |
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OK, $414 for split box springs is sounding a little more reasonable. Maybe slightly high, but split does cost more than one piece. Are you happy with the feel of the Sealy inpirational? It probably should start out slightly firmer than you might like, because it will soften a bit. I priced a 7" king piece of 3lb. HR foam (pretty good quality) from a place I bought sofa cushions, and it was over $700. 3" of latex would push the total to around $1100, plus you are getting a cover on it and delivery. So, spending $1200 is not way out of line (real cost more when you factor in the loss on the previous mattress - but that is a sunk cost now). Do you know the density of the HR foam? That would be nice to know. HR foam can last reasonably long. Think of sofa cushions. I get about 5-10 years use of of mine. I have not used HR foam in a mattress, but I think as a firm base it will last longer than the low density comfort foams they use (which probably went bad in your current Sealy). |
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"Would I be crazy to consider the Sealy Embody Shelter for $2951.99 which would involve me spending another $2366.99??? That is the one with 6.5 of smart latex ontop of 6 of HD foam. Yes |
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Phoenix wrote:
"Would I be crazy to consider the Sealy Embody Shelter for $2951.99 which would involve me spending another $2366.99??? That is the one with 6.5 of smart latex ontop of 6 of HD foam.
Yes Yes, for sure don't buy the more expensive one!!!! The cheaper Embody is marginal, but if you really like the feel it might be okay. You can always add more latex for less than $1100 more. By the way, do you know what "smart" latex is? What makes it smart. I get nervous when I hear marketing terms like that. If it is all systhentic latex, I would then avoid that mattress completely. I am not crazy about the Ikea one for that reason and 6" not enough. The HR foam in the Sealy will probably not last as long as latex or steel coils. So, you have to ask would you rather pay a bit more for a customziable all latex that will last longer. So, going with the Embody is more risky. This message was modified Oct 18, 2010 by sandman
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Smart Latex is Sealy's name for continuous pour latex which is most likely LI's Dunlop zoned (that's why they call it "smart"). It doesn't say anywhere if it is a blend or natural ... I suspect a blend. I really do question the value in upgrading at all. Why spend 1200 to upgrade to the insightful when that same 1200 can buy you a superior mattress to the insightful ... AND you could do a comfort exchange for another or similar mattress to the one you already have and you would end up with TWO brand new mattresses and one boxspring. You could keep the second mattress or sell it whatever worked for you. Am I missing something? Phoenix |