Mattress Forum

Exactly.

Laying on beds with the same specs, I would say the Sealy was more comfortable....Why is that? That's the question I have, & is it as simple as the ingredients/components. Does it have something to do with the build?

Otherwise it's a no brainer to order one of these internet only companies..just afraid that I would come to the same conclusions as I did with the beds that looked better from the standpoint of foam specs, but were just not as comfortable.

*shrug*

What did you try in comparison? Were the others too soft, too firm, or what?  Were they 100% latex?

Maybe you like the feel of the non-latex foam base.  It is possible that it feels better now, but will soften up too much (and possibly get body impressions) too quickly?  Hard to say.  Do you know anything about the density or other details of the foam base below the latex? 

It is possible that their "smart" latex has a different feel as well.  I don't enough about to know if there is a significant difference from other latex out there.

It is possible that this will be the one you like the most.   I don't think it will last nearly as long as an all latex (assuming not 100% synthetic) mattress, but it is possible that a well made foam base can last quite a while.   Tempurpedic uses a foam base as well, and some people are happy with those for many years.   Not sure how the quality of their foam base would compare to the Sealy.  

If you lay on 4" of talalay 22 ild over 2.1 density HR foam ... it will feel exactly the same as a second mattress using the same foams, thicknesses, and ild's ... this is assuming that what is covering the mattress is the same and that the "wear" on the mattress is also the same.

Having said that, there are ways you can make it feel different depending on what type of mattress you are talking about.

What the mattress is on is one of them.

Laying on a hard mattress and then laying on a softer one will also change the subjective feel.

The mood you are in is another.

And there are many more.

But the actual feel remains the same.

Mattress outlets are very good at creating an atmosphere and "showing" their mattresses in ways that are designed to create an optimal feel. It is to their advantage (and the advantage of the manufacturers) that consumers believe that inconsequential variations in how a mattress is made or what the material is called (yes even this can make a difference in subjective feel) adds significantly to the feel, comfort, durability, or suitability of a mattress.

They love the confusion that comes from the belief that "they are so much more expensive that there must be SOMETHING that makes them better or they wouldn't be selling them"

They are well aware of how easy it is to mislead the "average consumer" (and change their perception) and their sales and training is designed specifically to take advantage of this through implication, half truths, misleading advertising, and in some cases outright misinformation and lies.

Phoenix

PS: None of this is meant in any way to diminish the research, efforts, education, and practices of the more legitimate and more honest people in the industry. When you find these they are a breath of fresh air.

Anyone want a second helping of "intuisoft smart latex" ?????? How about some "NASA foam" for dessert? I promise you it will change your life.

Mike

What most people feel when they are in a store is the top 6" or so (depending on many factors). You can test how well the mattress keeps your spine aligned (supports) through some of the methods I and many others have mentioned in other posts on the forum but most of what you are feeling in the short time you lay on a mattress in a store is the upper layers. What you will feel when you lay on a mattress for one or many nights will almost always be different to some degree from what you felt in a store. The reasons for this are partly the support layers and the "longer term" comfort that comes from proper sleep position and movement and partly the "conditioning" that alters perception when you are comparing many different "feels" and being somewhat overwhelmed by trying to remember and compare something so subjective .... and the "influences" you are subjected to along the way. In some ways it may be easier to tell how a mattress will feel for many nights through research than it is through actually testing and trying to turn such a subjective experience into an objective one. Obviously a combination of research and personal experience is the best.

Having said all of that, I would talk to all three of the people who represent your (non Costco) different options and get a sense of how what they said fit your circumstances. You will get a greater sense of trust in your own judgement when several people say the same thing and you will also get a sense of the differences in opinions and how they may apply to you.

I can't imagine that the Ikea is 40 ILD but I have no experience with it.

You clearly like a firmer feel. Just don't forget that "firm" does not necessarily mean support. It also does not mean that the upper few inches of a "softer material" cannot lead to a firm mattress. Just take a look at the "firm" or even "ultra firm" mattresses sold by the 3 "S" companies (and others of course) and you will see softer foam in the upper couple of inches. Without that you would be sleeping on "wood".  If you haven't already, it may be worth going through step one of what I posted earlier in real world experience just to confirm that you really do like firm in the upper layers of your mattress. Clearly with your size you need more "firmness" in the middle and bottom ... but don't do yourself out of the comfort you want as well in the belief that "sleeping on a rock" is your best option ... or that you can't have both.

Phoenix

PS: Ikea classifies the Elsfjord as a medium and it is also 5 zoned (usually zoning in the material itself is not that big a variance) so with both of these it is not what most people (or at least ikea) would call firm and I doubt it is 40 ILD even in the firm part of the zoning. Having said that, because latex has different qualities and resilience from other foams, it generally will feel a little firmer than other foams ... even though this too depends on many factors.

Once you have reasonably accurate answers to "on what does it depend" you are in a much better position to buy a mattress and fit the different constructions and materials to your own personal circumstances. I would guess that it would only take a few hours of research on this forum to know more than the typical mattress salesman ... and anyone can do this from their own home. Even with a few hours of research though, very few people really believe that they already know more than most of the people offering the opinions they will be subjected to ... and yet they do. It is not hard to tell the "tone" of spin from the "tone" of knowledge and experience. Pointed questions about the source of their information or the specifics of a material will often separate them. When you hear the "tone" of knowledge and experience and the same information is being confirmed by several people you have a much greater likelihood of "getting it right".

Phoenix

Well one guy I was talking to on the phone (that offers a layered latex mattress at a good price but has been rarely mentioned on this forum thank goodness) said to me out of the blue "what do you do for a living?". I went "huh". He repeated his question. I asked him why he wanted to know and he proceeded to ream me out and in effect told me that I was a bum that had nothing better to do than research mattresses and that I would probably do better in life if I actually "went to work and made a living". There was even more derogatory comments in his tirade but you get the gist. The funniest part was that I hadn't even answered his question.

I think he had a problem with some of the questions I asked and some of the information I had that contradicted what he wanted me to believe (laughing). Needless to say I didn't and wouldn't buy anything from him ... at any price.

Phoenix

This is the Erjford: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/60109592 listed as firm.

I'm not sure where you found the the Elsjford is medium firm, although I have seen other people on one of the forums refer to it as that also.  It is definately not medium firm, it is about as firm as anything I have tried.

It is probably the "most firm" of their mattresses but this is relative. A feeling of firmness is also dependent on many things ... and I personally would not put this mattress under anyone but a child or a very light adult. Synthetic latex is the "worst of the best". In general synthetic latex lacks the "resilience" of a blend or natural latex ... even though in a blend it does add "compression resistance" to the natural material according to the research I have read. The overall "feel" of blends or natural (combination of comfort and support and the ability to conform) is better. This mattress is also so thin that part of it's "firmness" would come from the thinness itself and it's feeling would be much more dependent on what it was placed on.

I would at least consider the Erfjord (f and j reversed from your post) because it is a blend (high content of natural latex) and is thicker. I wouldn't consider the elsfjord.

In WW ll, when natural rubber was not so easily available (to the allies anyway), they used a lot of SBR (synthetic latex) by necessity and they found that overall it did not have the same combination of desireable qualities of the natural material. Of course there has been a lot of research done since then.

When Sealy first came out with their synthetic latex cores ... it was being touted as "the highest quality available" and as "state of the art". Interesting that they don't seem to be using them anymore and that they are now "glowing" about more natural versions of both Dunlop and Talalay.

Phoenix

I would not worry that the sleepez will be too soft.  You can get it all in XF (44ILD) dunlop if you want, and it will be plenty firm.  I am sure that would be too firm for 99% of the people out there.  The beauty (and possible hassle though) is that it can be customized to what you like.

The Ikea would certainly be a cheap alternative if you like it.  I think you said it is all synthetic, which I would not be too excited about (never tried but supposedely the worst of the latex options).

You can probably get one of the thinner Sleepez to keep the cost down, because sounds like you don't need it very thick or soft.