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First time I have been in a mattress store for years. I walked in and there was no one there and I was able to talk to the mattress salesman for 15 min. or so while I laid on a few mattresses. Mostly I just went in to see what was selling these days because frankly, for me, laying on mattresses in a store does me no good. I can tell if they're too soft (most are) but other than that it's a waste of time. I have to spend several nights on a mattress before I can get a sense of how it supports or does not support my body. What I found most interesting is that the sales man told me (not sure if it's true... maybe Budgy or another mattress insider can tell me) that almost all the Big S companies are switching over to pocket coils. He told me that Stearns and Foster now make almost all their mattresses with pocket coils. I found this incredible. I mentioned that years ago I had a Simmons pocket coil and that it lasted only 6 months or so before either the springs wore out or they migrated, not sure which. He said migration was not a problem, as far as he knows (either that has changed or he just doesn't know, becuase years ago if you did a search on the net you'd find many complaints of the pocket coils having shifted). I also found that a few mattresses were using latex but just synthetic latex and only in small amounts, just so they could advertise it as "latex". I did find one Stearns and Foster which the mattress guy said was all latex (synthetic; I believe Sealy makes their own, right?)... but honestly I doubt it was all latex, I'd be willing to bet it has some Pee Yew foam in it too. The one thing about mattress salesmen that I have found (and of course there are exceptions like some who have identified themselves as such on this forum, who are very helpful and knowledgeable) is that they will tell you with an honest and sincere face that such and such is true, and then I find out later it was pure B.S.. I always wonder if they really believed it to be true or if they just love lying so much that they have gotten very good at it. So I wonder if it is true that the majority of S beds are now pocket coils or if it was just b.s.. My other question is, to anyone who might know the inside scoop on this: Has the pocket coil technology changed over the past 15 years? Are they better now than they were? I always thought it was a good design except that a) they could migrate too easily; and b) since they are made from thin gauge wire, they would wear out quickly. If they have made some advancement that would allow them to last longer without wearing out or migrating then I would actually consider buying one. This message was modified Apr 9, 2011 by jimsocal
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Budgy, thanks. I am always skeptical too about S companies though I have to admit that I have looked at the Simmons and S&F demos in stores and it does look like it might serve me better than most of the other helicoil type springs out there. As to how long it would serve me, that's a big question. I have not looked super carefully at the S&F Intellicoil but I did see the model in the store where you can press down on it to see how it performs, and my impression was that the inner coil would stay in place. I may go back and take a closer look now that you mention it. I am impressed by the Simmons double coil system where they have one lighter gauge shorter coil on top of a heavier gauge short coil. This does seem like a good spring design. I'm wondering if anyone here has tried this design or if anyone knows somone who has one. "On paper" it appears to be a good design. As always my concern is more the foams they put on top of them. We had this discussion once re DIY'ing a pocketed coil mattress. But I forget what you said. I recall that you seemed to think it might be difficult to accomplish. But from what I have seen of the models in the stores, where the coils of the mid- to upper priced Simmons coils are encased within a hard foam edge support, I am wondering why it would not lend itself to removing the foam on top and adding my own layers of latex? Can you comment on this? I am not sure it would really be any different in terms of DIY but maybe I'm not thinking it through... If I thought it would work I would be much more inclined to buy a Simmons and see how I like it and if I don't like it, then I could at least try to perform surgery on it and replace the foams. I am more and more convinced that a good pocket coil system might be what I need. |
| as for discussion about DIY in the past I honestly do not remember...but thinking about it at the moment I cannot think of any reason why a pocket coil would be tougher to use for the build than any other spring system...preferably one without a foam encasement would be stronger though...the interactive coil unit that you have DIY'ed in the past..was it foam encased? |
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budgy wrote: as for discussion about DIY in the past I honestly do not remember...but thinking about it at the moment I cannot think of any reason why a pocket coil would be tougher to use for the build than any other spring system...preferably one without a foam encasement would be stronger though...the interactive coil unit that you have DIY'ed in the past..was it foam encased? The Simmons are reinforced with much more foam along the edges, at least the better ones I would buy are. But it seems to me that if the springs are glued together and foam encased, as they are, then one should be able to DIY it the same as any other mattress. One thing I have learned throughout my experimentations is that not having the tight cover over the top probably does negatively affect support in the mattress. If it was possible to re-sew it up tight like it came new I believe this would help make the matt more supportive and comfortable. Do you agree (in theory)? So you have never sold Simmons? You have no familiarity with how people like or do not like the double row - one 14.75 gauge and one 13.25 gauge - of coils in their top of the line models? One thing I have found in my shopping and comparing various mattresses lately is that some of the new memory foam or visco looks to be a big improvement over Tempurpedic. I cannot say for sure as I have not slept on it but I find that many of them have a quicker response which I think is good, and some have higher densities, 6 or 7lb, and some are soy based which avoids the formaldehyde issue that Tempurpedic has, or at least is said to have. I would really like to try some of this soy based quick response memory foam but I don't know if it's available yet as toppers or layers. Maybe someone here knows. I'd love to try a 6-7lb density soy based quick response visco layer. Maybe an inch of that on top of some Talalay might be a great thing... but one never knows. I have to laugh because the configuration I am using now, is the best thing I've ever used in all my experiments and it's also the cheapest! ;-D However it is still far from perfect and does hurt my back a bit after more than 8 hours sleep. But only after 8 hours does it hurt, anything less than that, it's pretty darn good. I'm using this base or one very similar. This one says it's adjustable and I don't think mine is: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/60125969 I have it right on the floor because the Sealy box springs I have was not quite wide enough to hold it. Then I have a layer of about 2.5" of what is supposed to be 32ILD Dunlop latex (but feels more like 38 ILD) I've been sleeping on this for several months now with no changes required which is almost a miracle for me. In a way I am probably crazy to go out and buy a mattress since this is working but I just have a hunch that pocket coils would work well for me. This message was modified May 1, 2011 by jimsocal
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Hey Jim,
I think that it would be better from a looks standpoint to have the top cover sewn on a little more tightly...this will firm up the mattress though..so I suppose it is a matter of preference. I did sell Simmons for about 8 years...we never really carried the coil-on-coil mattresses, as even though the springs sounded interesting, the upholstery was essentially the same as the lower priced Beautyrest models. Seemed very expensive to me for what it was. |
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budgy wrote: Hey Jim,
I think that it would be better from a looks standpoint to have the top cover sewn on a little more tightly...this will firm up the mattress though..so I suppose it is a matter of preference. I did sell Simmons for about 8 years...we never really carried the coil-on-coil mattresses, as even though the springs sounded interesting, the upholstery was essentially the same as the lower priced Beautyrest models. Seemed very expensive to me for what it was. Speaking theoretically, since I have not slept on them, the Simmons coil on coil design seems like it could be a real winner in terms of support. I'd like to hear from people who have tried them. OR people who have tried S&F Intellicoils. It seems to me the Simmons coil-over-coil design is better than the S&F coil within a coil design but I am curious to see how people think about both of them, particularly people who have had issues with finding a mattress that supports a bad back or shoulders or other pressure-point/ support issues. Meanwhile I am basically happy with my current low-budget system, but I have my doubts as to how long the frame will hold up since it is just bowed wood. Seems to me the wood will give out at some point, quicker than tempered springs should. On the other hand, I may also just keep the latex layers as I have them, and just try a different wood frame, maybe an adustable wood frame. Do you have any ideas on a frame I could try to replace my current bowed wood one, above? One that would last and that is also adjustable? I'm going to start a thread with this question...
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