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Hello all, Have read this forum for several months and have learned a lot. Recently took the plunge and bought a 3 layer zip cover 100% natural talalay configuration on a wood platform with slats about 2 1/2 inches apart. Have invested more than 2K so far in this setup. The problem is that I can't find a layer arrangement that works. I've learned that I need a soft layer up top or I wake with muscle pain, but then it gives me back pain. The firmer configurations also cause back pain. I do not ordinarily suffer from back pain, so it is definitely from the mattress. I did not buy from flo beds so cannot try their zoned approach. I weigh less than 120 lbs. My last best bed was an old spring air back supporter. I believe they were made with extra springs in the middle, or a different spring configuration to support the middle of the body, lower back and hips. It was a wonderful bed and they just don't make them like that anymore, as you all know. I researched an enormous amount to find a modern equivalent to the old spring air but couldn't find anything that was the same or even similar. Supposedly some of the innersprings now put extra reinforcement in the middle with extra foam instead of wiring, but I couldn't really confirm that. Also, with the new innersprings, there are a lot of offgassing issues, in fact I bought an S brand and had to return it due to the horrible odor that it had, and I have spoken with others who had the same problems. I also tried a cotton innerspring which was very uncomfortable, my husband said it felt like sleeping on the ground outside. So, I turned to latex, as they felt great in the mattress stores, but am not having much luck here with them at home. So what I am wondering is, perhaps the problem with latex is that each slab is the same consistency throughout, in other words, there is no extra reinforcement in the back area. So, 1) For those of you that switched to a ZONED latex, did it greatly improve the comfort and support in the back area? 2) Or has anyone found the right combination of softness on top-firmness for the back that they would recommend in latex or other combinations? 3) Or has anyone been happy recently with a comfortable yet supportive innerspring? thanks! This message was modified Sep 17, 2010 by jasmine
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Have a read of this thread: http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/definite-breakthrough-lower-back-sufferers-additional-tips-matress-surgery-updated/14673-0-1.html I have yet to make a latex mattress work for me (returned a Flobed with a v-zone) and you and I are about the same weight. Are you a side sleeper by any chance? You can try experimenting as shovel99 did in the above thread. You can also try placing a folded towel between two of your latex pieces in the area where you need more support without having to sacrifice the softness of your top layer. You could also consider replacing your top layer with a MF 4lb or 5lb, to retain softness while keeping a firmer core. |
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Diane, thx for answering and for the link and the good ideas...... I'm a side sleeper. When you were experimenting with the latex, did you find the firmer or softer combinations best, and did you ever ultimately find a great mattress? sandman: Unfortunately i did not purchase from a place with unlimited layer exchanges so am sort of stuck, currently have tried a number of combinations from 21ild through 34. Have tried switching them all around. With anything other than soft on top it causes multiple pressure points, guess that is what i meant by muscle pain. I realize that most people go firmer, but in showrooms the firm latex was not very comfortable to me. Read here somewhere to go firm as one can stand it....maybe should have, but took the flo beds test and said i should go soft over soft. I think the back pain was actually better on the softer combos. It might be that latex is just not for me. Yikes, at this point just wish i could find the magic combination. You've both been helpful... This message was modified Sep 15, 2010 by jasmine
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It is hard to recommend firmer, because that seems too uncomfortable and you say even worse for your back. You are pretty light, so you have to factor that in. Does your soft configuration feel too soft like you are sinking in too much? Or does it feel pretty firm? What is your soft configuration? 21 over something in between over 34? It is possible that it is too firm. The key is spinal alignment and either direction can be a problem. Even the Flobed has a 2" softer convoluted layer on top. I am not sure if you have half layers, but maybe try something even softer. Otherwise, do you have any memory foam or other soft foam you can put on top? If not, maybe stick with the most comfortable for a while to see if you adjust to it. Not sure how long you have been using it. |
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What happened with me and the Flobed was very weird. If it was soft enough for me to easily fall asleep and not feel any pressure, I woke up in what I call a smiley-banana shape where my waist/ribcage area sunk too much. When I firmed it up by switching layers, it was difficult to fall asleep because of pressure and things like my downside arm and ear (yes, ear) would go numb. But if I persevered and managed to fall asleep, about 4-5 hours later I would wake up in the smiley-banana shape again - it was as if my body heat and pressure (most of our body heat is in our mid-torso because that is where all the internal organs are) somehow softened up even the firmer latex under me to the point where I sank in too much. Remember, I am only about 100 lb so this seemed very strange. The same thing happened with the vZone layer. I could actually feel the firmer section beneath my ribcage to the point it was a bit uncomfortable, but when I woke up it was like it melted away from under me and the support was gone. Interestingly, this does not happen with the Novaform memory foam we have on the guest bed - go figure - so MF which is supposed to melt away with heat doesn't and latex which isn't supposed to did. The poor Flo-beds people were scratching their heads too and finally just said to return it because it appeared their latex was not going to work for me. Perhaps I am from a different solar system?? Right now I am still sleeping on our old Serta Perfect Night king while hunting for a new bed. The only supportive part of the bed is smack-dab-in-the-middle and this works just fine if my husband sleeps downstairs on the guest bed. I also have a twin that I use as an experimental bed and right now it is configured from bottom to top: Ikea bonnel box spring, a bare-bones pocket coil medium-firmness mattress with no extra upholstery, topped with 2x1" of 14 ILD Talatech latex. Even the 14 ILD put a bit of pressure on my arm, so I have topped it with half of a king wool comforter and throw the other half on top of me as my covers. So far this has been comfortable with minimal back pain in the morning, altho the talatech is a bit smelly still. But this still means my husband and I are sleeping apart which neither of us is happy about. I am also waiting for the new Green Sleep models to arrive to see if they have a softer topper than they have on their current models. I like the concept of a latex comfort layer on top of pocket coils so I am keeping my fingers crossed. To complicate matters, my step-daughter who lives in another city got a bedbug problem brought in by a visitor to her home. She has been battling this for the last 3 months and it appears to have been finally resolved. But she is coming to visit us in December and I am not about to bring in a new and possibly expensive mattress into my house until she comes and goes and we know for sure that no unwanted "guests" have been passed on to us. Sorry, this turned into a rather longer reply than I intended. I guess all I really wanted to say is I understand how frustrating it is to want a latex mattress to work but not be able to make it happen. Many here have found success and others have also struggled with latex so you are not alone. I wish you the best of luck and maybe you will find a solution that I can learn from! |
| Forgot to mention that on my twin experiment I have a Dormeir wool mattress pad on top of the Talatech and then the wool comforter is on top of that. |
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Hi Jasmine,
Here is what finally worked for us. We purchased from Costco the Sleep Science latex mattress (all Dunlop): Layer 1 – 1” 19 ILD natural latex – soft layer Layer 2 – 2” of 24 ILD natural latex – medium layer Layer 3 – 4” of 32 ILD natural latex – support layer Layer 4 – 3” of 24 ILD natural latex – medium layer and put it on an oak platform bed, with the soft layer on top. We ordered extra slats for the platform bed, so the slats are very close together, making a very firm foundation. I am a side sleeper, and this worked great - no stiff neck, no numb arms. No back problems either, but not cushy enough; we wanted something that had more of a sink-in feeling. We tried a 1.4" wool topper from Sheepish Dreams on top of the mattress, but woke up with an aching back. Off came the wool topper. (By the way, although the website describes this washable wool topper as having a cotton backing, it does not. The backing material is polyester.) Next, I purchased 1" of soft Talalay from Foam by Mail. The bed was much softer, but, again, I woke up with a sore back. Finally, I tried the wool topper on top of the 1" of soft talalay and it worked! The bed is very comfortable, no backaches, no numbness. Good luck! |
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That is intersting, but a bit hard to interpret. Individually both made your back worse, but together they were fine. If both added softness, then the combo should be even worse? I have found that a wool topper can make things feel firmer to me - less sinking in. I can't totally figure it out, but seems like it might pull tight and support heavier areas (at least that is my theory). So, maybe the wool topper offset some of the sinking in of the new talalay. Not sure why the wool by itself caused back problems though, but the way things work can be hard to predict. Little things can sometimes through off spinal alignment. This message was modified Sep 16, 2010 by sandman
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I think you are right, sandman. Wool topper alone is a little too firm and soft latex alone is a little too soft. The combination is just right.
(I fell like Goldilocks reading this!) |
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Hi Jasmine, Sorry you haven't found your combination yet. As a 170lb guy with lumbar back pain, side and back sleeper, I may share some of the same issues as you. After buying.... actual in house... over 20 mattresses over five years... then 1" to 3" combos of memory foam, latex in various configurations... started to figure out that I was all that time trending too hard. When I "scalped the Serta" and another time prior.. I followed other folks lead and stacked up two 2 inch sections of latex from FBM that was supposed to be 20 ILD talalay and on top of that 2 more inches (1 inch folded) into 6 inches... both on top of a mattress and on the floor. A complication here is that I believe the 2 inch 20 ILD from FBM was really "Dunlop"... different process... and was closer to 28-30 ILD and "quite firm." But coming back: 4 inches of what I believe to be 30 ILD and 2 inches of "soft" 20 ILD was "hard as a rock." Then I cut off the top of the mattress. (read my post) After much thrashing around I have discovered ... much to my shock that "soft 20 ILD" can be supportive... that somewhere between 4 and 6 inches of mostly 20 ILD latex in 1 inch increments... one layer of 14 ILD latex in combo with 4 lb (pretty soft) memory foam... can both support and be soft for my weight. You can test if you need soft cheaply: buy 2 pieces of 82x82, 1 inch, "supersoft foam" at www.foamdistributing.com... nice quality, cheap, fold it in half and have 4 inches to put on top of your soft & one layer of medium. The "supersoft" is about equivalent to 20 ILD latex from FBM.... and so is a good "test". If that seems like the right direction, you can buy some $94 1 inch Queen 20 ILD latex from FBM... the other division of the company. Good luck. shovel99 |
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DianeK,
Your post upthread regarding your latex experience sounds frustrating ... as well as a riddle. Your comment about your ear hurting really had me wondering. Are you using a pillow? Perhaps the pillow wasn't providing the necessary cushioning and/or was not adequate for you needs and was throwing your head/neck/shoulders/torso out of alignment which impacted the rest of your body? It seems odd that an ear would hurt as a by product of an unsuitable mattress. This message was modified Sep 17, 2010 by Lovegasoline
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