Mattress Forum

I'm looking at Talalay blended latex. The owner said they use Latex International to supply their latex. I'm following up with him to verify the blended variety is made by LI. I'm also checking into the cost of natural latex, but from the exhaustive (and exhausting) research I've done thus far it seems that the blend is more durable and longer lasting while still being relatively toxin-free (oeko certified from mattresses.net). 

I decided I didn't want to deal with the bottom end retailers like ebay based businesses and Foam By Mail. It seems there are some inconsistencies in those companies that don't really make it worth the low price to me. I also don't wan't to pay for a larger resellers marketing, showroom overhead, etc. so I like the idea of dealing with a direct manufacturer. Arizona Mattress (mattresses.net) is a direct manufactuer and offers a quality mattress at a reasonable price. There are other similar options, but they've been very helpful and offer a formula for the mattress I like. I could still be swayed, but I'm 90% sure I'm buying from them unless I find a similar situation locally.

Regarding the durability, there has been much debate on this topic. Do a search here for posts by budgy, as he has fairly strong opinions that natural latex is superior to blended regardless of what LI states. There haven't been any published unbiased studies comparing LI's tatlatech blend vs. their 100% natural regarding durability. The only evidence is what LI has published, and there is reason to believe that their published results may be geared more towards profit margin than actual science since their ultimate goal is to turn a profit.

Budgy did post this link from an unbiased source to support his argument that natural rubber is a better stronger product than SBR: http://www.elderrubber.com/material.htm - notice the differences in these three categories: Compression Set Resistance, Resilience (Rebound), & Tear Strength. NR beats SBR in all three categories.

Budgy also mentioned that there have been many 100% natural latex foam mattresses last for 50 years. Blended cannot say the same, only time will tell.

Here's a good video of one of those 50 year old Latex mattresses: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjfQqDGJ1gI

I'm not saying that the natural is better than the blended, because I really don't know. What I do know is that at 41 years of age, this mattress I'm buying has a reasonable chance of lasting me for the rest of my life. It also contains no petroleum based products, and I'm hoping will be extremely comfortable. Lastly, It has a removable cover so I can switch out any part at any time.

They're just quoting LI, so I suppose you take that for what its worth. There seems to be anectodal evidence both ways and many people seem to not be able to tell the difference. I think my general feeling is it doesn't matter, haha, but I'm not super hard core about it being "all-natural" per se. 

My understanding of the 40 year old beds it they're all dunlop manufactured, so that also isn't apple to apples, but it is definitely part of why I'm buying a latex bed.

Ken at Mattresses.net got back to me. He said they use LI and Radium for latex. From what I can tell Radium is a reputable manufacturer as well. He said he prefers the Radium's overall quality slightly more. I think this jives with what I've seen Phoenix metion in various threads. Ken also told me there would be a $250 upcharge to make the bed out of natural talalay. I suppose I have to figure out if that is important to me or not, haha.

Thanks for the dialog. It is always helpful to talk through these things!

Regarding the fact that people can't tell the difference, that may be true regarding comfort, but everything I've read states that the natural talalay product from LI is denser and heavier in weight. Not sure if there is any correlation whatsoever, but denser PU foams have been proven to last longer.

Regarding the 40 year old beds, I'm more concerned with the materials used to process them rather than the technique. But your point is valid, not an apples to apples comparison.

I'm pretty sure mattresses.net is using Radium, since it is a less expensive product, and they're website states a 40/60 blend rather than the 30/70 LI uses. From what I've been reading, the LI product is noticeably better. If it were not the case, then why would anyone use LI's product when the Radium is cheaper?

I'm sure the mattresses.net product is fine, and you'll likely be very happy with your purchase. Another main deciding point on the flobeds for me was the promotion they just finished running of 15% off. Not sure if I would've splurged at their full price.

I haven't really seen any clear discussion of the quality differences. Can you point me towards them? Most of what I'm seeing doesn't point to either being better than the other.

If I remember correctly, I read it on a website of a high-end bed manufacturer. They stated that they switched to the LI latex over the Radium due to its superior consistency and higher quality. I did a quick search and came up empty. If I find the link, I will post it for you.

I also found a few comparisons of european talalay vs. LI, but to be fair when I went back and re-read them, they never mentioned that the european foam was from Radium. I may have just assumed that to be the case. I did find Phoenix's posts on this site, and bow to Phoenix's better knowledge, since Phoenix has obviously seen plenty of both.

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**** Edit ****- I spent some time looking for the link I mentioned, and cannot find it. It bugs me, because I know it mentioned Radium by name and stated that the LI Talalay was more uniform. It mentioned that the Radium Talalay had one side which was slightly firmer than the other, but not nearly as noticeable as dunlop. Also mentioned that LI has less surface imperfections. If anyone here knows the link I'm referring to, please post it.

I also think that FBM may have cast a bad impression on me regarding Radium as I understand that most if not all the foam they sell is from Radium. Theory has it that they're selling 'seconds', but no one has confirmed or denied this. MequonJim posted a comparison between the two, but doesn't mention if the FBM product was labeled as coming from Radium. There are very many posts here from FBM customers who stated their foam was labeled from Radium. Here's the link MequonJim posted with pictures of the side by side comparison: http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/foam-mail-latex-latex-international-latex-comparison/5314-0-1.html

Did some more homework (over an entire week full time on this so far!)  SAMS clubs subs it out to a mattress company (been in business since 1970s) who does have a showroom, however in Colorado.  The bed is called the American Sleep Organic Matress #190001 for $1,999 for a CA King.  It is a 100% Natural Dunlap Latex with 1" 18ILD, 2" 24ILD, and 6" 28-32 ILD with zones built in.  I too wanted Talalay but might be too plush for my husband.  My compromise and get a topper later if I need to.  It also has organic wool & organic cotton.  With SAMS Club it is a full money back return for the first 90 days (or 60 days) with receipt AND no restocking fee or hidden fees.  I figured it's worth a try because it won't cost me a penny if I don't like it.  All the other companies have a huge return or exchange policy with it being 9%-18%. Still a lot less than anything else I've found that is ready made.

Sherry

Are you going to order the mattress with the zippered cover from mattresses.net? I'd definitely recommend it for numerous reasons. One, the entire encasement can be professionally wetcleaned whenever you want. Two, you can examine the quality of the foam they send you. My guess is that they're going to put the nicer quality pieces of foam in the beds with removable covers. The ones they send in sealed covers likely aren't going to be examined any time soon. I'm considering purchasing a new bed for my son too, and would like to know your impressions of the mattresses.net beds.

One thing I noticed in the link you sent above with the SBR vs NR numbers in it is that those were pure SBR numbers. Most sources claim the synthetic rubber is inferior in some ways on its own, but the blending process combines the strengths of both. No data to back that up other than LI's marketing blurb. Still looking for info about Radium, but I've yet to find a specific negative remark about their foam.

Also, in case you didn't notice, the video you posted about the 50 year old mattress is from the Mattresses.net guy.

Going back to budgy's point from another thread, "If synthetic latex was superior then why on earth would the same company blend any natural rubber into the mix at all when the cost of doing so is significantly higher?  it would be much cheaper to make the product 100% synthetically. "

Thread I'm referring to: http://www.whatsthebest-mattress.com/forum/this-true-100-natural-talalay-does-not-exist/18681-A-1.html  -  Definitely worth a read.

I also notice that the high-end mattresses use 100% pure talalay. The Pranasleep line at City Mattress uses 100% pure Talalay from LI for 4 of their 5 versions. They only use blended on their lowest end "Om Shanti" which is their entry level Latex mattress. Their "Wahe" version retails for over $8K, and compares closely to the Flobeds posture deluxe which is less than half the price delivered.

Anything is possible, including the fact that a 70/30 mix of SBR to NR could be stronger than either compund by themselves, but I wouldn't bank on it. Looking at the physical characteristics of each substance tells me that 100% NR would likely outlast a blend when used for a mattress. Maybe not for a car tire, but probably for a mattress. Until an unbiased scientific test is performed, no one will know for sure.

Regarding mattresses.net, I'm not overly comfortable with their website. They don't mention which latex is being used in each of their mattresses. They're quick to tell you they use LI Talalay products, which is true. But as you found out by contacting them, they also use Radium.  I'm not insinuating they're being deceptive, but from some of the posts I've been reading, you have to call them and pin them down on what latex is being used in what mattress. From the reviews I've read, they're a well respected company, and would consider purchasing from them myself. As I mentioned before, I may decide to purchase a new bed for my son. I just wish they were a little more forthcoming on their website.