| i have a sleepez bed that I keep trying to soften by adding more layers of foam in the case. So I now have 4.5 layers in a case meant for 3 layers. The case still zips, but I wonder if I am compressing the foam so much that it is affecting the feel. I have talalay latex, which always felt springy to me, but I am wondering if this made it more springy? Or if this is bad for the foam? |
| If it is comfortable I wouldn't worry about it. Have you thought about removing one layer if you are worried about ruining the latex? That is more expensive than the PU foam to damage. Or put the PU over the top of the mattress cover. |
| I've had this bed for a few years and have never really found it comfortable, Its not as bad as termpurpedic was for me, but still it feels too hard and springy (ie upwards pressure). I guess I am just not an all-foam bed guy. I sleep mostly on my sides and my shoulders are always sore when I wake up. I softened the bed a lot over the years, first with my swaps (going from mostly firm to mostly medium) and eventually replacing most of those with soft. Also adding a memory foam layer, a wool topper, a cuddlebed, etc. So I'm not worried about damaging the latex or the case - if that happens hooray I will buy a new bed (altho I have no idea what would work better at this point). I'm just wondering if bunching too much foam in the case might make the springiness worse. |
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I would think that putting that many layers in the case and compressing them would make it less springy and quite a bit firmer but you have actually slept on it. Do you find it less springy with the extra layers than without? Your experience could probably answer this better than anything we could say as you have actually experienced the difference and springiness is something you can feel. I'm assuming that the memory foam layer, the wool topper, and the cuddlebed was what you have stuffed in the cover over 2 ?soft? 3" layers of talalay over a ?medium? 3" layer of talalay? If that's the case you have quite a "mixed up" construction and I think there wouldn't be too many people who would find this comfortable or supportive. It would be too hard on top and too soft underneath. Having memory foam would diminish a feeling of springiness as it has little resilience. Having a cuddle bed over it could also diminish springiness but could make the memory foam quite hard as it wouldn't "melt" nearly as easily. A wool topper will also diminish "springiness" but it will firm up a bed ... especially if it is either compressed or tight or over memory foam. A tightly stretched cover will also increase the firmness. If you are looking for softer, the layers would do better outside the cover with the memory foam as close to you as possible. If you are looking for less springy (which would also mean less supportive as spring = support and is necessary in at least the core layers of the mattress) then the memory foam on top would also help. If you put the wool topper or the cuddle bed over the memory foam it would become harder again. The springiness you are talking about could also be coming from the soft middle layer and could have a "jiggly" kind of feel (your layers of "stuff" over the soft foam are preventing the soft foam from helping pressure issues and they are becoming your support layers). If this is the case then this layer would need to be firmer and nothing you put on top would help. I'm not quite sure what you are calling "springiness" and I suspect you may be using it to describe firmness which would explain the pressure issues. Phoenix This message was modified Dec 1, 2010 by Phoenix
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I wish I knew how to describe it. The bed feels nice and soft to me until I lay on it a while, then it feels too firm. It almost feels like its pushing up on me. I think the actual config is (from top to bottom):
all on top of the mattress. then, all in the mattress cover:
The reason for the crazy mixing is I started with 3 layers of dunlop and swapped 2 to talalay (which I definitely prefer to dunlop). Sleepez suggested dunlop because i am pretty heavy (like 240lbs) but the dunlop firm killed me. I kept trying to go softer, but even that stack i have now (2 meds, 2 softs) feels firm to me. Which is why I keep buying new layers to try and adding them. I've played with tons of different arrangements over the years, I added the cuddlebed pretty recently, I don't really think it helped much. I liked the conv foam but my wife hated it which is why its buried in the mattress. As you say, I probably should move the memory foam layer back up to the top, that seems to be the best thing for relieving the pressure points. I have to admit I thought the idea of a configurable bed was great at first, but now I sort of hate it. Wish I could just buy something that works and would last. |
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I guess there are two directions you could go. Either analyzing whatt you have and seeing if it can be improved or looking at a local manufacturer for something you could try. It seems to me that what you have may be worth one more try if you are game for it :) Phoenix |
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Phoenix I've been reading your other posts, wow you seem to know this stuff cold. And it seems like you found a bed that you love; LUCKY! I see you got 4" Blended Talalay core 28 ild with 3" Natural Talalay 22 ild on either side; that seems not far off from what I have, altho mine is essentially 1-sided since its sleepez and therefore adjustable. I have 6" medium and 6" soft over that - altho sleepez foams are a little firmer than others (their soft is like 23, their med is like 31), so I guess my mattress would feel a bit firmer than yours. Also, my mattress is on a wooden platform, whereas yours seems to be the adjustable reverie platform; I can't tell, is that a soft or hard surface? Do you see any problems in having latex mattress directly on wood? By the way, a while back when I was complaining that my medium layers felt too firm a bunch of people warned me not to go softer - glad to see someone knowledgable finally advocating for soft! Also, people were advising me to add the wool topper and/or cuddlebed to make it softer, I don't think it feels any softer when I add them, glad to hear you confirming that. I'm wondering if I should pull everything off the top and start again with just the latex mattress, no toppers. If you have any thoughts on how I might make the bed feel softer while keeping proper support, with the layers I have or with new, pls let me know. I did move the mem foam to the top of the bed last nite and I didn't love it - had bad experience with tempurpedic in the past - but i will try it a few more nights to see if I adjust. Finally, you mentioned that there were 5-10 beds that you liked and would have probably been happy with; did you ever post that list? I'd be interested in seeing it. Thx Steve |
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I think I've posted in various places most of the outlets that were in my top ten and top 5. I don't remember the specific comment but it was probably referring to how difficult it was to both decide where to buy from and also what final construction would work for me. Every outlet represented different "tradeoffs" and I eliminated them ... painfully ... one by one. My other half had a lot of say in this as well because what she felt about the final product was more important than how I felt. I would try to explain to her the effect of each option and then she would let me know how important that would be to her. We were close enough (confirmed in our "field testing") that I was pretty sure that anything she was happy with would also work well for me. I'm a little hesitant to put a "ranked list" up since it would be so easily interpreted as one vendor being "better" than another which is not the case. They just represented different options. In the end there are probably many more than 10 (probably closer to 50 or more) which represent what I would consider to be tremendous value depending on what was important to the individual and I would hate to exclude some of them from a "list" that only included my final 10 as well. Some of these I even found after I had made my purchase. On to your mattress ... I know the firmness and thickness of the Sleepez layers, could you confirm how thick the other layers are and which one is the poly you were saying you "buried". I'm assuming it's the one labelled as "conventional latex"? If you know if it is lower density, HD, or HR that would help a little too although depending on how thick this is probably not that important. Also what is the density and type of the memory foam if you know. New adventures :) Phoenix |
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In the mattress I have:
The convoluted foam is hi quality latex; I was trying to reproduce the FloBeds construction. But my wife said she could feel the "bumps" when I had it on top so I moved it down a layer. As I said originally the mattress case was designed to hold 3 3" layers so I wonder if I should remove a layer? The other layers are toppers I've tried at various times.
The config I am using now (the one that seems to work best for me) is the wool pad over the mem foam over the mattress. I wonder if a 1" piece of soft talalay might work better than the wool pad tho? Any other thoughts? Steve |
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OK ... Lets see what we can do. I read through your original thread to get a better sense of where you've been. The goal as I understand it is (from a previous post) ... "I would also say that, to me, latex just doesn't feel as comfortable as a really nice spring and foam bed. I would love to be able to recreate that cushy pillowtop feeling in a mattress that would last and provide proper support." This is really helpful. So lets figure out what makes the pillowtop mattress so comfortable for you and then duplicate it as best we can with latex. A pillowtop basically has a bunch of softer poly over a firmer innerspring (with some padding in the quilting). The thicker layers of soft poly probably feel better to you because you seem to be pressure sensitive and need a thicker layer of softness on top for your weight. Around 4" of comfort layer is in the range of "probable". This means we are going to need a top layer of around 4" of softer latex. Too much and you get support issues and sinking in issues and too little and you get pressure issues. I also think the transition areas between layers will be important for you. I am one of those who is sensitive to transitions and found that a 2" layer of softer latex over a firmer core was an issue where 3" of the same density was not. Even though I am probably only "going through" the 2" a little and it's taking most of the pressure issues away, the last bit that I sink through bothers me (and my other half as well). This can be solved in 2 ways. Either a core layer that is closer to the comfort layer in ILD (gradual transition) or a thicker comfort layer that you don't go through which allows you to use a much firmer core layer for support ... or both. In your case I would tend to the thicker comfort layer that you don't go through on top of a firmer support layer which would come closer to an innerspring pillowtop and I also saw in the previous thread that you described a more gradual transition layering scheme as "too squishy". So we can test a few things just to see what happens and test all of this out. The only think I'm unsure of and need to make sure we take into account is the true ILD of the foambymail toppers. They so often send a different product than someone ordered that it would be easy to make a mistake based on believing that they really are what you ordered and make an "incorrect change". Having said that they could be exactly what you thought they were. Your feedback on this (comparing the FBM soft talalay to the sleepez soft talalay) would be helpful. First I would put the firmest layer on the bottom. It may not be firm enough but it's the best we have so the medium dunlop would be it. If you can tell the difference ... put the firmest side of the Dunlop up. Next I would put the soft sleepez talalay on top of that (not the foambymail talalay cause we don't know exactly what it is) and finally I would put the 1.5" foambymail convoluted topper on top of that (and hope that it really is a soft talalay and doesn't just feel soft because it's thinner and convoluted). Those 3 layers inside the cover are where I would start (the cover will be loose). I am hoping that putting the 3" medium Dunlop on a firm base with nothing under it and only a "just enough" comfort layer over it will make it as firm as it can be (like the innersprings) even though overall this construction may be a little thin for you. You probably want a mattress protector or pad on top of this and if you have a really thin one without wool or anything else that would be the best way to test this layering without what you feel being "interfered with" by a mattress pad but if you don't then the thinnest most pliable one you have would be the way to go. If it doesn't matter and it works for you then just sleeping on sheets over the cover itself would be great as it already has some wool in it. Hopefully what you feel with this will give us some clues about where to go next. I have a few ideas but I'll wait for your feedback for a night or two. Phoenix This message was modified Dec 3, 2010 by Phoenix
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Phoenix I've been playing with this all morning (since before I saw your reply) and came up with some more info.
So in playing around today I decided to get back to basics and put the bed back to mostly the original sleepez parts; top to bottom:
This felt pretty good with just the mattress cover but I think that by the time the allergy cover and sheet go on the mem foam is a little too deep to work right and the bed feels significantly firmer. Of course I havent slept on this yet so I can't say for sure. My guess is I will find this to be too firm (since I did previously) but I want to start over and this seems like a good place to start. I don't want to do just the medium + soft + convo because I really don't like the feeling of the convo foam on top. I guess I could try the mem foam on top - essentially what I just set up minus 1 layer. Or should I just try this for a few nights? Thanks again! Steve PS - Did I see somewhere that you are in the Seattle area? I live in Redmond/Bellevue area... |
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