| i have a sleepez bed that I keep trying to soften by adding more layers of foam in the case. So I now have 4.5 layers in a case meant for 3 layers. The case still zips, but I wonder if I am compressing the foam so much that it is affecting the feel. I have talalay latex, which always felt springy to me, but I am wondering if this made it more springy? Or if this is bad for the foam? |
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OK, so my guests are gone and I can start experimenting now. Just out of curiousity tho, I took some photos of the last setup I had (which was a cuddlebed over a mem foam pad on top of mattress, upsidedown latex convo foam over soft talalay latex over med talalay latex over med dunlop latex). As you can see (I hope) from the photos, after 4 nights the cuddlebed completely hammocked around me - and thats one of my biggest beefs with mattresses - I hate sleeping in a depression. But when I peeled back the cuddlebed it also looks a little like the mem foam might be doing something similar - certainly its higher in the middle. The last 2 pictures are the mattress without any toppers and even it looks like its doing this slightly (probably the mattress cover and not the foam in the mattress)? The above config actually felt ok for a few nights, at least until the cuddlebed hammocked. Altho my back and shoulders are both a little sore. I think tonite I will just remove the cuddlebed and try the mem foam over the mattress alone... |
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removed. This message was modified Dec 15, 2010 by Leo3
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Well we have an allergy cover and a "fitted" sheet but both are designed to fit up to 18" mattresses so they are loose. I usually tuck them in but don't worry about that while I am rearranging. As I said I had a cuddlebed and a 1" memory foam topper on the mattress, just removed the cuddlebed. Thinking I'll leave the memory foam because altho I hated a thick mem foam mattress the 1" layer does seem to help with pressure points.
I removed some layers to reduce the compression in the mattress and now have the following layers inside the mattress cover:
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st3v3k4hn wrote: Well we have an allergy cover and a "fitted" sheet but both are designed to fit up to 18" mattresses so they are loose. I usually tuck them in but don't worry about that while I am rearranging. As I said I had a cuddlebed and a 1" memory foam topper on the mattress, just removed the cuddlebed. Thinking I'll leave the memory foam because altho I hated a thick mem foam mattress the 1" layer does seem to help with pressure points.
I removed some layers to reduce the compression in the mattress and now have the following layers inside the mattress cover:
removed. This message was modified Dec 15, 2010 by Leo3
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OK, that's a decent place to start. Removing the medium talalay would probably have given us a lot more information but I also understand your reluctance (given what I did to Leo :)). The reason I think it might have been OK is that it's not too likely you'd sink through 4.5" on top (probably closer to 4" because of the convoluted) and how much you were able to feel the dunlop under 4 - 4.5" would have given us a pretty good idea of the depth of your critical zone. Even if you only sank in to the Dunlop 1/2 an inch it would likely still feel pretty soft (Unlike the 2" over Leo's dunlop where she was sinking into the dunlop more ... and too much ... which made it really firm.) I suspect this layout may allow you to sink in too far and perhaps feel too squishy. It would be more like the feel of "soft progressive latex" than an innerspring with a nice soft layer on top that would keep you pressure free and in alignment. My guess is that you need softer/thicker than "normal" over firmer than normal underneath. Lets see how this goes though and go from there. Phoenix This message was modified Dec 8, 2010 by Phoenix
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Phoenix wrote: OK, that's a decent place to start.
Removing the medium talalay would probably have given us a lot more information but I also understand your reluctance (given what I did to Leo :)). The reason I think it might have been OK is that it's not too likely you'd sink through 4.5" on top (probably closer to 4" because of the convoluted) and how much you were able to feel the dunlop under 4 - 4.5" would have given us a pretty good idea of the depth of your critical zone. Even if you only sank in to the Dunlop 1/2 an inch it would likely still feel pretty soft (Unlike the 2" over Leo's dunlop where she was sinking into the dunlop more ... and too much ... which made it really firm.) I suspect this layout may allow you to sink in too far and perhaps feel too squishy. It would be more like the feel of "soft progressive latex" than an innerspring with a nice soft layer on top that would keep you pressure free and in alignment. My guess is that you need softer/thicker than "normal" over firmer than normal underneath. Lets see how this goes though and go from there. Phoenix OK, well I forgot how much I hate sleeping directly on memory foam (its ok under a layer, like under my wool topper). Slept for an hour or 2 and woke up stiff and uncomfortable and sunk thru the foam. Removed it and spent the rest of the night on just the mattress. Slept ok the rest of the night. Stiff this morning but willing to try again. Or would you prefer I remove the middle medium talalay and try that tonite? |
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If I had the preference, I would remove the medium Talalay. We could get a lot more information that way and it would be a litttle less "random". The first thing I am trying to determine is how thick and soft the comfort layer needs to be and with the medium talalay under the soft it will be much harder to tell the effects of just the top two (3" + convo) layers themselves (the medium talalay would feel soft under them and it would be easy to assume that the softness was coming from only the softer upper layers). With the firmer denser Dunlop under these, it will be easier to tell if you are "going through" the softer upper layers. Typically. a 3" soft layer and a 1.5" convoluted would be plenty of thickness for almost everyone and the only question for a layer this thick would be how far you sink into it and it's ILD. The absolutely greatest amount of information we could get about the comfort layers would be the 4.5" on wood ... but I wouldn't want to do that to you (laughing). Phoenix This message was modified Dec 9, 2010 by Phoenix
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Phoenix, I'm loathe to totally remove the med talalay layer just because the mattress cover wouldn't be full and i think it would be very uncomfortable trying to sleep in the collapsed cover. Wouldn't it be pretty much the same if I swapped the 2 mediums? ie put the med tatalay on bottom and the medium dunlop on top of that? Then the soft talalay and the convo foma on top of that? That way mattress is still "full" but the 2 softs are on the medium dunlop. If you really think thats not as useful I'll try it your way tho.... By the way, I wouldn't want to sleep all night on the floor but as a test I wouldnt mind pulling the 2 soft layers out and putting them on the floor to see how it felt. I could maybe nap on it for an hour? Would that actually be useful? I don't have a cover for the foam layers tho, I thought you're not supposed to lay them directly on the floor or sleep on them or handle them alot without a cover... |
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Part of the problem with just swapping out the medium layers is that the "critical zone" I've been talking about is about finding out the suitability of the comfort layers. All the layers in a mattress compress to some degree when you lay on it but the compression is not as "point specific" in the deeper layers and a medium Talalay under a medium dunlop would be very different from the Dunlop on a firm surface. It would be much more difficult to tell where any specific effects were coming from. Latex layers should definitely be covered for normal use but having them out for a short time would be fine. If you are game, then putting the two top layers on a blanket over and under on the floor could tell us a lot. If you lay on it in all your sleeping positions and sort of "bounce" just a little, especially with those parts that may have pressure issues (hips and shoulders), then "how much" you feel the hard floor underneath in different positions can tell us a lot. Take your time and give yourself time to relax and be still in all positions. Do the "bouncing" gently while you are laying down on your side and back (rather than "all at once" or jumping on or turning over suddenly or propping up on your knees or elbow). This could really help. Phoenix This message was modified Dec 9, 2010 by Phoenix
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PHOENIX OK, I tried the latex directly on the floor experiment, here are the results. First I'd like to note that these layers are actually a bit less than 3" - I think thats standard and you know that, but I just wanted to be very clear. Also, the conv foam is roughly 1/2" in the valleys and close to 2.5 at the tops. Finally, I always put the foam label-side up - dont know if that matters. So, putting the soft talalay on the floor with the conv foam on top (flat side up) and just a thin quilt on top:
Since I felt like I was hitting bottom I decided to remove the conv foam and add another regular soft talalay layer. I expected a big difference but honestly it didnt feel that different to me; maybe I didn't bottom out on my back, but it felt very similar. So I added the conv foam on top of that. That finally felt like I could sleep on my side (no real pain, but maybe too soft on by back??? would need to sleep a few nights to tell for sure). So I put the bed back with the 2 softs on my side and the 2 mediums on my (wonderful and long-suffering) wife's side (pls don't tell her).  I don't actually think I ever tried this before because I always tried to keep the bed "even" (same layers on each side). I realize that this may be a terrible configuration, but I had to put something back and wanted to try something new! By the way, I slept the previous few nights on just the mattress (med dunlop, med tal, soft tal, conv foam) with no toppers. In this congifuration its my shoulders that ache the most (sometimes my hips hurt a bit but not usually). Also my back feels pretty stiff. So, thats that. What do you think? Thanks again Steve This message was modified Dec 11, 2010 by st3v3k4hn
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