| i have a sleepez bed that I keep trying to soften by adding more layers of foam in the case. So I now have 4.5 layers in a case meant for 3 layers. The case still zips, but I wonder if I am compressing the foam so much that it is affecting the feel. I have talalay latex, which always felt springy to me, but I am wondering if this made it more springy? Or if this is bad for the foam? |
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If you are ever back in the Seattle / Redmond / Bellevue area you should let me buy you dinner as a thank you! With pleasure You've been just as patient. Phoenix |
. I have every intention of being there as much as I can since that is where my "heart" and other half (known in another thread as "Latex" lol) lives and it drives me nuts that a "border" can keep us apart as much as it does.| By the way, one more weird question. I have that very thin layer of memory foam that I dont like very much near the top of my mattress. What would it do if I put it under the top 2 layers I have now? In other words, soft-t over med-d over mem-foam over med-d. Would it make things softer or firmer? (Still trying to firm up the 2 mediums...) |
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It would likely allow you to "sink down" more as it would likely slowly compress over the course of the night so it would make the support layers softer. This one is a little difficult to answer definitively because it would depend to some degree on how "sensitive" the memory foam was and how much heat reached it over the course of the night but I would guess it would compress "at some point" and when it did it would take "priority" in the "order of compression". Underneath the soft Talalay it may initially feel firmer (unmelted) but as heat reached it it could add to your cradle over time. All of this would depend on how much it reacts to heat (visco) and how much it reacts to pressure (elastic). Ice will melt with pressure for example not just heat ... and different memory foam formulations have different properties. Phoenix PS: there is an actual science behind all of this called Rheology and in the case of viscoelasticity it can get pretty complicated. With memory foam there is a property called creep which makes it especially difficult to predict in middle layers. This creep and it's low elasticity are what gives memory foam the small amount of "support" it does have and why you don't sink "all the way through it" as you would with honey. Enough to say that memory foam is "creepy" ... in more ways than one (laughing). This message was modified Dec 30, 2010 by Phoenix
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Phoenix, I just ordered the dunlop from Sleepez. Altho I keep thinking now how funny it is that this is essentially a progressive layering, when all along I think you were more favoring the differential layering for me. Thats why I thought I should buy 2 firm pieces, so I could do 4-4.5" soft over 6" firm (differential). So I sure hope this progressive scheme works! Steve |
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It sort of has elements of both. We are using Dunlop in the middle which has a fairly large differential with soft Talalay (especially with deeper progression) but it is progressive in the sense that we are using the top of it for part of the comfort layer. The difference between the bottom and the middle ("xfirm" under medium) is also "in between" ... but as big a differential as possible. Probably fair to say we are using a "progressive differential" approach with "bigger jumps" than a pure progressive approach :). I'm looking forward to when you get to sleep on this What was the ILD of the "firm" Dunlop they had? Phoenix This message was modified Dec 30, 2010 by Phoenix
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If we had used a more "pure" differential approach, we would have needed a firmer layer in the middle and a thicker comfort layer which would have involved buying more foam. I also believe that "progressive" elements using layer thickness as well as ILD's can be more "accurate" but it's more difficult to build because there are more "variables" involved. In your case I believe that what we are doing will be more accurate (perhaps with a "final adjustment") than what would have been possible with a more pure differential approach. Your willingness to "experiment" and provide really good feedback was also what made this possible :) Phoenix This message was modified Dec 30, 2010 by Phoenix
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The dunlop firm is 38-40. BTW I asked shaun if he felt like the "firm" side of his dunlop was really significantly firmer than the soft side. He said he would be shocked if most people could tell a difference, especially down a few layers. He also said that the label side isn't necessarily the soft side; they just grab some foam, stick a label on it and ship it. The one possible problem I foresee is that this will put 2 dunlops on my side and only one on my wife's side. Since the dunlops are theoretically a different height than the talalays that could potentially be a problem. In which case I would probably try the medium talalay in the middle, and if that didn't work buy her another dunlop too. But obviously that's a wait and see thing... Steve |
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I talked to Shawn about whether there was a reliable way to tell which is the "firm" side of the cut Dunlop he sold (you never know for sure if it's not a full core) and he was the one who told me that it would "probably" be the side with the label up but that he didn't know for sure. He also said he had never been asked this question before. (reply #46) I also doubt it could be "felt" in terms of "softness" with a 3" layer, but it could make a difference depending on the type of Dunlop it was, in terms of how far you sink in. These kinds of "adjustments" are trying for small increments in 3" layers but sometimes a couple of small increments can make a difference. Savvy rest (and some others) even "promotes" flipping their Dunlop 3" layers as a way of adjusting firmness. As far as the Dunlop core thickness it would depend on who makes it. Lots of them are between 5.5" and 6". The latex green is 5.9" (15 cm) so if that's what it was there wouldn't be too much difference. Phoenix This message was modified Dec 30, 2010 by Phoenix
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Just to clarify what I mean by "small increments" ... if you were sinking down say 1/2" beyond the point (your threshhold) where you woke up in the morning in pain from being out of alignment over the course of hours, then flipping 2 layers to a "firm side" where both layers compressed slightly less (@ 1/4" each) could very well make a difference ... even though you wouldn't feel much or even any difference when you lay on it for a short while or when you went to sleep in terms of pressure relief or "softness". These small increments are really a matter of "playing the odds" and doing whatever you can to slightly increase them in your favor even though in most circumstances they may not be enough by themselves. This can sometimes make a bigger difference than most would imagine if it happens to "take you back" to the other side of your "threshhold" ... especially in combination with other changes that go in the "same direction" that may not be enough by themselves. Phoenix This message was modified Dec 31, 2010 by Phoenix
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Just wanted to update. Received the firm-dunlop layer and the new all-cotton cover on Friday. Put the firm-dunlop on the bottom of my stack (replacing a med-dunlop), with a med-dunlop and a soft-talalay on top. I don't think I feel much of a difference from when the bottom was med-dunlop, but I think I need to give it a few more days. Unfortunately I spent a few days after New Year's on a really bad mattress (on vacation) and my back is still tweaked from that, so no conclusions possible yet. My initial impression is that it does feel a little firmer (we were hoping the firm bottom might change the compression of each layer making things actually feel softer). One thing I seem to notice is that instead of just shoulder pressure I'm actually feeling some hip and rib pressure now too. So maybe that's good, because we are spreading the pressure more? Anyway, like I said I think its too early to judge. I will say I like the cotton cover a lot. The wool cover was nice but I think it compressed pretty quickly and you just can't really even it out again since it doesn't detach and you can't really shake it out or wash it or put it in the sun. The cotton feels great and I can't see how it would compress. Steve |