| i have a sleepez bed that I keep trying to soften by adding more layers of foam in the case. So I now have 4.5 layers in a case meant for 3 layers. The case still zips, but I wonder if I am compressing the foam so much that it is affecting the feel. I have talalay latex, which always felt springy to me, but I am wondering if this made it more springy? Or if this is bad for the foam? |
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I talked to Shawn about whether there was a reliable way to tell which is the "firm" side of the cut Dunlop he sold (you never know for sure if it's not a full core) and he was the one who told me that it would "probably" be the side with the label up but that he didn't know for sure. He also said he had never been asked this question before. (reply #46) I also doubt it could be "felt" in terms of "softness" with a 3" layer, but it could make a difference depending on the type of Dunlop it was, in terms of how far you sink in. These kinds of "adjustments" are trying for small increments in 3" layers but sometimes a couple of small increments can make a difference. Savvy rest (and some others) even "promotes" flipping their Dunlop 3" layers as a way of adjusting firmness. As far as the Dunlop core thickness it would depend on who makes it. Lots of them are between 5.5" and 6". The latex green is 5.9" (15 cm) so if that's what it was there wouldn't be too much difference. Phoenix This message was modified Dec 30, 2010 by Phoenix
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Just to clarify what I mean by "small increments" ... if you were sinking down say 1/2" beyond the point (your threshhold) where you woke up in the morning in pain from being out of alignment over the course of hours, then flipping 2 layers to a "firm side" where both layers compressed slightly less (@ 1/4" each) could very well make a difference ... even though you wouldn't feel much or even any difference when you lay on it for a short while or when you went to sleep in terms of pressure relief or "softness". These small increments are really a matter of "playing the odds" and doing whatever you can to slightly increase them in your favor even though in most circumstances they may not be enough by themselves. This can sometimes make a bigger difference than most would imagine if it happens to "take you back" to the other side of your "threshhold" ... especially in combination with other changes that go in the "same direction" that may not be enough by themselves. Phoenix This message was modified Dec 31, 2010 by Phoenix
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Just wanted to update. Received the firm-dunlop layer and the new all-cotton cover on Friday. Put the firm-dunlop on the bottom of my stack (replacing a med-dunlop), with a med-dunlop and a soft-talalay on top. I don't think I feel much of a difference from when the bottom was med-dunlop, but I think I need to give it a few more days. Unfortunately I spent a few days after New Year's on a really bad mattress (on vacation) and my back is still tweaked from that, so no conclusions possible yet. My initial impression is that it does feel a little firmer (we were hoping the firm bottom might change the compression of each layer making things actually feel softer). One thing I seem to notice is that instead of just shoulder pressure I'm actually feeling some hip and rib pressure now too. So maybe that's good, because we are spreading the pressure more? Anyway, like I said I think its too early to judge. I will say I like the cotton cover a lot. The wool cover was nice but I think it compressed pretty quickly and you just can't really even it out again since it doesn't detach and you can't really shake it out or wash it or put it in the sun. The cotton feels great and I can't see how it would compress. Steve |
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My initial impression is that this is good news. If the pressure is being "evened out" that means that your shoulders are sinking in more relative to your hips. Even though this may feel a little firmer, it seems to be "acting" softer for your shoulders which is what we want. The firm would also stop your hips from sinking in as much which means that we may get the "even softness" without sacrificing alignment. The new cover may also be helping your shoulders sink in more. If the pressure stays "evened out" and you are in alignment over he course of the night but there is still not enough overall softness on top, then we can look at adding another inch of soft if we need to. Let me know how things feel after you have "recovered" for a few days :) Phoenix This message was modified Jan 10, 2011 by Phoenix
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Hi, There are many discussions here about what is between you and the top comfort layer affecting feel dramatically. Search St. Dormeir or Natura to find them. I was shocked to stumble on this fact with help from folks here. I would attribute at least a 20% improvement for just a sheet over memory foam instead of even a basic, thin, old fashioned cotton pad that was 15 years old and less than an eight inch thick, in my case. The softer top layers support by wrapping around your body, the softer memory foams (I am using 1 in of 4lb on top right now) conform the most. A firm stitched top of commercial mattress can completely defeat the softer foam value. A tight cover or tight fitting sheet can reduce conformability. I tried a thin cotton sheet blanket and even that was too firm for me... Picture a sausage. The stuff inside is soft, but packed tightly enough into the skin.. it can be very hard. Uhhh... just leave it at that.
I just ordered the St. Dormeir cover, which is reported to be the strethiest cover you can buy... can';t be felt, but is filled with washable wool, which supposedly can actually be cooler in summer, warmer in winter. I hope so. About $200 and non returnable. I'll be selling it here if I don't like it. Good luck on your pursuit. In case you haven't found them, there is a sticky at the top of the forum on Sandman, Jimsocal, and Budgy's mattress surgery... with tons of good information. Also many good posts as you are probably aware of folks' experience with the "professional stack" mattresses like Sleepez.
shovel/paul |
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I think maybe i'll try medium talalay in the middle tonite (rather than med dunlop). i must confess - when I was talking to shaun i mentioned that i didn't think it would be soft enough and he convinced me to order a 1" soft talalay topper. so i have that. i tried it for a bit and i think its probably too soft with the current layers + 1" soft talalay on top. it gets back to that jiggly feel. but i want to keep trying just the 3 layers before i add this in to the mix... Steve |
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That will be an interesting comparison (medium Dunlop in the middle to medium Talalay in the middle). In theory ... assuming that the 25% ILD of the actual 3" layers you have is the same ... the Talalay should let you sink in a little more (lower sag factor). This may be just enough to give you the softness/cradle you need and still keep the alignment. This would also depend on how deeply the middle layer compressed. If it is less than 25% then the Dunlop would be a little softer. If it is more than 25% then the Talalay would be a little softer. I am guessing that you will compress it more than 25% so the Talalay may "win" the softness battle lol. This is where it would be important to "differentiate" any discomfort that came from pressure and any discomfort that came from alignment so we can tell whether "sinking in" is an issue or "sinking down" is an issue ... and of course which parts of you are doing what. Looking forward to the next "report" ... with the 1" in "reserve" (just like fine wine) :) Phoenix This message was modified Jan 11, 2011 by Phoenix
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I think the med-talalay did feel a little better than the med-dunlop. They both feel way better than what I had a month ago. Honestly I think I could keep sleeping this way without issue. But I still would prefer a more cushy "pillow-top" feel. And that extra 1" of soft talalay is calling out to me! I really want to try it! I know just adding the 1" on top of either of these last 2 configs will be too soft. So I think I need to make the stack more "differential" - firm bottom support, soft top comfort. I think that means putting the firm dunlop on top of the medium dunlop in the support part of the mattress. Then add the 1" & the 3" soft on top. Not sure if 1" over 3" soft would feel much different than 3" over 1". What would you suggest? I think its (top to bottom): 1" soft over 3" soft over 3" firm over 3" med. Seem right? |
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Yup, I'd do the same thing as you are suggesting for exactly the same reasons (firm Dunlop under the soft Talalay). The 1" over the 3" would likely be a "little" bit more comforming (thinner layers "act" a little softer) but the difference would likely be slight since they are the same ILD. Given your feedback ... I'm pretty confident you have the materials you need to get to where you want to go without zoning (and this layering may even be "it") ... even though that would still be an option if it turns out to be neccessary. Phoenix This message was modified Jan 12, 2011 by Phoenix
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Haven't actually switched yet - which is good because now I know for sure that the soft over medium talalay isn't supportive enough. Woke up at 6am today, on my back, feeling like my hips had sunk in way too much. It's odd because it doesn't feel that bad at first. Not sure if I am actually sinking in more as the night goes on or if I just feel it more. Either way, yikes - feels like Tempurpedic (ie not good)! So on to the topper config tonite. I assume you would still prefer I keep the medium dunlop rather than medium talalay as the bottom layer? I'd rather use Talalay just because that would give us both only 1 Dunlop per side (so the height will match) but I suspect its better to try dunlop first? Steve |