| i have a sleepez bed that I keep trying to soften by adding more layers of foam in the case. So I now have 4.5 layers in a case meant for 3 layers. The case still zips, but I wonder if I am compressing the foam so much that it is affecting the feel. I have talalay latex, which always felt springy to me, but I am wondering if this made it more springy? Or if this is bad for the foam? |
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Hi, There are many discussions here about what is between you and the top comfort layer affecting feel dramatically. Search St. Dormeir or Natura to find them. I was shocked to stumble on this fact with help from folks here. I would attribute at least a 20% improvement for just a sheet over memory foam instead of even a basic, thin, old fashioned cotton pad that was 15 years old and less than an eight inch thick, in my case. The softer top layers support by wrapping around your body, the softer memory foams (I am using 1 in of 4lb on top right now) conform the most. A firm stitched top of commercial mattress can completely defeat the softer foam value. A tight cover or tight fitting sheet can reduce conformability. I tried a thin cotton sheet blanket and even that was too firm for me... Picture a sausage. The stuff inside is soft, but packed tightly enough into the skin.. it can be very hard. Uhhh... just leave it at that.
I just ordered the St. Dormeir cover, which is reported to be the strethiest cover you can buy... can';t be felt, but is filled with washable wool, which supposedly can actually be cooler in summer, warmer in winter. I hope so. About $200 and non returnable. I'll be selling it here if I don't like it. Good luck on your pursuit. In case you haven't found them, there is a sticky at the top of the forum on Sandman, Jimsocal, and Budgy's mattress surgery... with tons of good information. Also many good posts as you are probably aware of folks' experience with the "professional stack" mattresses like Sleepez.
shovel/paul |
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I think maybe i'll try medium talalay in the middle tonite (rather than med dunlop). i must confess - when I was talking to shaun i mentioned that i didn't think it would be soft enough and he convinced me to order a 1" soft talalay topper. so i have that. i tried it for a bit and i think its probably too soft with the current layers + 1" soft talalay on top. it gets back to that jiggly feel. but i want to keep trying just the 3 layers before i add this in to the mix... Steve |
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That will be an interesting comparison (medium Dunlop in the middle to medium Talalay in the middle). In theory ... assuming that the 25% ILD of the actual 3" layers you have is the same ... the Talalay should let you sink in a little more (lower sag factor). This may be just enough to give you the softness/cradle you need and still keep the alignment. This would also depend on how deeply the middle layer compressed. If it is less than 25% then the Dunlop would be a little softer. If it is more than 25% then the Talalay would be a little softer. I am guessing that you will compress it more than 25% so the Talalay may "win" the softness battle lol. This is where it would be important to "differentiate" any discomfort that came from pressure and any discomfort that came from alignment so we can tell whether "sinking in" is an issue or "sinking down" is an issue ... and of course which parts of you are doing what. Looking forward to the next "report" ... with the 1" in "reserve" (just like fine wine) :) Phoenix This message was modified Jan 11, 2011 by Phoenix
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I think the med-talalay did feel a little better than the med-dunlop. They both feel way better than what I had a month ago. Honestly I think I could keep sleeping this way without issue. But I still would prefer a more cushy "pillow-top" feel. And that extra 1" of soft talalay is calling out to me! I really want to try it! I know just adding the 1" on top of either of these last 2 configs will be too soft. So I think I need to make the stack more "differential" - firm bottom support, soft top comfort. I think that means putting the firm dunlop on top of the medium dunlop in the support part of the mattress. Then add the 1" & the 3" soft on top. Not sure if 1" over 3" soft would feel much different than 3" over 1". What would you suggest? I think its (top to bottom): 1" soft over 3" soft over 3" firm over 3" med. Seem right? |
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Yup, I'd do the same thing as you are suggesting for exactly the same reasons (firm Dunlop under the soft Talalay). The 1" over the 3" would likely be a "little" bit more comforming (thinner layers "act" a little softer) but the difference would likely be slight since they are the same ILD. Given your feedback ... I'm pretty confident you have the materials you need to get to where you want to go without zoning (and this layering may even be "it") ... even though that would still be an option if it turns out to be neccessary. Phoenix This message was modified Jan 12, 2011 by Phoenix
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Haven't actually switched yet - which is good because now I know for sure that the soft over medium talalay isn't supportive enough. Woke up at 6am today, on my back, feeling like my hips had sunk in way too much. It's odd because it doesn't feel that bad at first. Not sure if I am actually sinking in more as the night goes on or if I just feel it more. Either way, yikes - feels like Tempurpedic (ie not good)! So on to the topper config tonite. I assume you would still prefer I keep the medium dunlop rather than medium talalay as the bottom layer? I'd rather use Talalay just because that would give us both only 1 Dunlop per side (so the height will match) but I suspect its better to try dunlop first? Steve |
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The back pain from misalignment can take a while to develop so when you first lay on something that is good for pressure relief it can feel good but after a while or through the course of the night your back can start to complain. That's why it's usually best to use the thinnest comfort layers that works for someone ... especially if weight distribution creates a tendency for the hips to sink in much more than the shoulders. This is where a differential construction can be better as well because the firmer middle layer stops the sinking down of the hips better but it may need more comfort thickness or softness so the shoulders can sink in enough. I think this is why so many people find their mattress different from the store once they've slept on it the whole night as well because in the store they may not spend enough time for misalignment issues to create any pain or discomfort. With memory foam it can be from actually sinking in deeper over the night but not so much with latex. I'd probably try the two dunlop layers first and if that seems to work then to test the Talalay to see if the difference causes any issues. On the bottom ... and depending on the actual difference in ILD between them and how deeply you are sinking into the bottom layer (percentage compression) ... a medium Talalay could work OK as well. If the bottom layer is softer than the middle there will also be a little "pre-compression" just from the weight of what is above it. Phoenix |
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So I was just laying in bed thinking "well, this still isn't right" and trying to figure out if its now too hard (because of the new firm dunlop) or too soft (because of the new 1" soft talalar topper). Maybe both? Laying on my back feels a lot like when I tested 3-6" of foam on the ground. There is some give (maybe too much under my hips) but then it feels like I bottom out. Very firm where its compressed. On my side I feel like I am making a V at the waist. Also feel more pressure on my ribs then before. Feels like my shoulder needs to sink in more but my ribs need to sink in less? Not sure if this is a sign of too hard or too soft. But I think for now I will swap the 2 dunlops and go back to a more normal progressive approach (fim on bottom, medium in the middle, soft on top) and see how that works. I thought 4" of soft on top would be too soft but maybe not... Steve |
| Hey Steve, been reading this thread and wanted to see if you have any update. |
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peclark wrote: Hey Steve, been reading this thread and wanted to see if you have any update. Steve |