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Okay, my mattress is just not working out for me and I'm re-thinking it all. My recent trip to my sister's home where I slept on a "regular" mattress for 2 nights and woke up with NO back pain, is making me realize I need to make changes. (I discount the theory that it was better just because I was "on vacation" because actually it was a stressful situation.) I'm going "back to basics", trying to think outside the box springs.( I know - bad pun. 1) What is the best platform for a latex+springs mattress in your opinions? Currently I am using a Sealy box springs (about 8 years old I think) which is made with some more-or-less heavy gauge wire on top, not wood. I always figured the platform or box springs really doesn't matter. But is it possible this is the problem - or a problem - with my mattress configuration? I have been wondering if I should build a wooden platform like the one Laredo created in this thread (has photos!). It's all wood with slats. OR, should I buy a new box springs. If so which one? I think most SCo's now use boxes that have wood slats on top instead of wire. Right? So if I should buy a "regular" box springs, which one? So should I use wood or old-style box springs as a foundation for my springs+latex mattress? What are you latex+springs folks using for your platform and why? 2) Springs. I'm convinced my Englander 12.5 gauge springs are too firm for me and don't comform to my body. So which springs should I try next? I'm still trying to find out what kind of springs my sister's guest bed had, that I liked. I may never find out, based on how hard it is to get her to go in there and look, and she's 2 thousand miles away... or she may have looked and not found a label. So I'm interested in your opinions. I think the idea of pocket coils sounds good in theory and I liked my old Simmons for about 6 months and then it either gave out or the springs migrated. That was about 12 years ago. I don't know what the problem was but it really hurt my back after I moved it to a new apartment. I think the springs migrated. I believe Budgy said in another thread that I can't find, that Simmons springs don't migrate now but they are now too stiff or something. I don't know if he answered my question: "So who does make good pocket coils now?" as I can't find the thread. (Sure wish this forum had the ability to Bookmark threads! Guess I'll have to start just putting them in my Browser bookmarks.) Or should I even try pocket coils? Someone said that offset coils from Sealy are pretty good but then didn't I read that they don't conform very well to your body? Or am I confused? So many springs, so little time! So all of you who have springs and like them, which ones do you like and why? 3) For the interim, I am thinking of trying a softer latex layer on top of my configuration. Should I go with the 14ILD Talatech or the 24ILD natural Talalay?
Someone at a foam place (who does not sell it) recommended I try a 14ILD but I am wondering if that would give NO support and be worthless to me. Does 14ILD Talatech provide enough support to not just be as useless (to me) as memory foam? I know the 32ILD Natural Talalay is too firm for me. It feels like it's pushing back against me too much and causes me pain. So is a 24ILD going to be enough softer but still supportive? I like the support of latex better than anything else. I recently tried my HR foam again and ecchh! it feels just "dead", more like Dunlop. Yet Talalay feels like it pushes back too much. I can't win... (Maybe the softer Talalay is the answer?) Thanks for your help! This message was modified May 24, 2010 by jimsocal
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) Especially those of you who have had or do have springs under your latex, please opine:|
sandman wrote: JIm, have you tried the 2" of Sensus under your 2" of latex? 2" MF probably too much for you, but if you have never tried it that way, maybe worth a shot. So, have you concluded your box spring is okay? I assume a wood slat one would be pretty firm, maybe too firm given your floor experiment? On your next piece, it is a judement call and only trial and error will really resolve it. SLAB does not show 1.5" on their website, and Sleepez does not show 19ILD (or less). Either one may be able to custom order. Foambymail has 20ILD naturual talalay at a good price, but I am not sure I trust their ILD ratings. I think others may have said they could not tell a difference between the soft and firm? SLAB does allow returns within 90 days (less shipping both ways and maybe a handling fee?), so you may just have to take your best guess and gamble on something. It does seem that replacing the fake Venus and/or HR foam will be an improvement. The 19 ILD vs. the Venus will give a firmer more supportive feel, but not sure if it will be too firm. Thanks for your thoughts, as usual. Yeah, I"ve tried EVERY configuration! Yes, the box springs is definitely fine. Very thick firm steel wire and no dip that I can feel or see. So I put it back under me because the floor was too firm. No platform bed for me! I know now that this type of box spring is good for me, at least with this mattress. Right now I can't afford to buy a topper anyway, so am just making do and playing around. I may try the Sensus again, on the bottom layer as you suggest. I did try the Venus as a bottom layer recently and it seemed to be okay but still did not give me 8 hours of comfort. Now I have the Venus back on top with the 2 latex layers under it and it's better than it was but again, still, not 8 hours of comfort. Oh well. It is what it is. |
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Sandman, this is after only one night and my experience with any memory foam is that after a few nights it sometimes requires removal for my comfort. But anyway I took off the blue fake Venus foam last night and added it (1") to my wife's bed because she suddenly out of the blue complained of her mattress being too firm. So I replaced my 1" Venus with 2" of Sensus last night. Lo and behold I slept good and woke up without back pain. IF ONLY THIS WOULD LAST! (But I have to be pessimistic based on past experience.) Anyway, thanks for the tip. If it does fail on me, then hmmmm? Maybe I could try just one inch of Sensus... or go back to my idea of buying one inch of 19ILD Talatech or natural Talalay. |
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Do you have the Sensus below the latex? Hopefully it will keep working for you, but many hopes have been dashed before, so who knows. The Sensus does have more density/support than that fake blue stuff, so it is possible that it will keep working. It should provide more comfort, if that was causing the issue. 1" of Sensus and 1" of 19 ILD would provide a bit more support. I am now using that combo. at the top of my stack (19 on top). That seems to provide enough support and comfort for me, but I don't have the same back issues as you. If the 2" Sensus stops working, maybe you can find a giant meat slicer and cut into 1" thick slices! Good luck with that. I have thought at times of manually shredding the memory foam or latex and putting it a topper cover, so I could add or take out to get the right feel (kind of like you can do with a shredded filled pillow). Never have done it though. The pieces would probably shift around to much anyway. This message was modified Jun 1, 2010 by sandman
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As suspected the 2" Sensus quit working for me on the 3rd night. I am not sure if this is because it "gives out" or what. That is the only explanation I can think of. But memory foam always works that way for me. I had it on top; I'm now going to try putting it under a layer of latex before I give up on it completely. I do think a 1" Sensus would have better chance of success for me. |
| You may want to try it under both pieces of latex. I think it will have less impact that way. 1" would be better along with something firmer. |
| Jimsocal, did you ever try the Sensus below the latex? How is your mattress working lately? |
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Hi sandman, Yeah, I tried it under the latex and it hurt my back. Unfortunately my wife is using our 1" of Venus so I couldn't try that instead (though I have tried it before, maybe not in this exact manner, though). So I took the Sensus off and now I'm using my 2 x 1" layers of latex with an old 1" layer of very low density cheap memory foam on top just to soften the latex, and my wool topper on top of that. It's not great but I do get about 7 hours of good sleep with it before it starts to hurt, that's an hour more than I got with the previous configuration. Of course I would be surprised if that does not break down and revert back to 5-6 hours of comfort in the very near future. I really want to buy the soft latex (19? or 22? ILD) to put on top instead of the cheap memory foam. BUT I just had to spend $560 on my car, so that puts the purchase of my 22ILD latex that much further away... But all in all, I am very happy to be getting 6-7 hours of good sleep! Before when my shoulder was very sore from my last car accident, I really was only getting 3-4 hours of good sleep per night due to tossing and turning from pain from my shoulder. Now that it's about 90% healed, I can sleep without pain in my shoulder. Now the only issue is the same old "whats the best mattress" issue. ... And I'm about 80% convinced that what I really really need is new springs (offset type) under my foam! But again, I just cannot afford to spend $ on my mattress right now. This message was modified Jun 15, 2010 by jimsocal
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Hi Jim, Just read last few entries of this post. I have lower back lumbar issues from injury, am both a side and back sleeper and have been down a $5-6k road of mattresses, latex and MF toppers from Foambymail.com, overstock.com, and Sleeplikeabear.com. Sorry for the rambles but don't want to spend the time to make this a treatise. The back/side sleep and lumbar problem seem nearly insurmountable. Add to that, for me, Mem foam sleeps hot, and while it feels good at first when I lie on it, when I sleep on my back, I wake up in severe pain. I interpret what happens is that my back "feels" that my butt is not being supported, so it "works" to hold up my butt and is tired as hell when I wake up... in agony. So, I have been trying to achieve "just enough" padding so that I just "bottom".... so my butt feels supported... without pinching pain on my hip and shoulder while on my side. Right now I am doing fairly well on a Serta Perfect Sleeper (continuous coil that back pain folks need) Auburn Firm (close to "a rock") ..... with 2 x one inch Foambymail's 1 inch 19 ILD latex. I am quite sure it is dunlop, and is quite firm, because it has somewhat random bubble pattern. True talalay will have very fine and uniform rubbery feel and texture. I find that dunlop with the 1/4 inch large holes (FBM) sleeps a good bit cooler than talalay... which had smaller holes. I found talalay to be "bouncy" which I did not like, and dunlop to feel more "natural" and less like a trampoline. In my search, I have tried at least 20 different pads from Overstock.com.... some latex, some supposed "sensus" ( knock off of lesser quality but OK) , in varying thicknesses 1-2". I learned to buy 1" pieces, and stack. Tried various layers of latex and the "sensus" and other 4 lb product. For me, MF starts out feeling good, but not by morning. MF doesn't do its melting thing if it is not close to your skin, so putting it under latex just crated a sagging, no support feel for me. Two one inch "sensus" on my very firm Mattress was pretty good, but not as good as two x one inch 19 ILD latex from Foambymail.com. I thought 1 inch of softer than what I had.... 19 ILD dunlop one inch x 2.... would be "just what I needed", on top of 1 " of the 19 ILD dunlop.... So I tried a 1" 14 ILD "very soft" latex topper from sleep like a bear ... only source I found for an ILD advertised as less than 19 ILD. It was true talalay, slightly softer than the FBM dunlop, but it didn't help me... and cost $172 including shipping. My cost to ship back was $14 from Atl to California, and they charged me back about $32 of "shipping" from the $172 (queen) original puchase, refunding me approx $140. That means they took $16 profit/restock fee.. which I am fine with. I found the 2" latex 19 ILD from foam by mail to feel a good bit firmer than two 1" pieces. I have ordered a "mattress pad" which has 1 1/4" of polyester fill from cuddledown.com in ME,but it hasn't arrived yet. They were recommended here or on another blog. They sell a number of different "pads" (cotton top, different comfort layer fills, and elastic skirt to handle a 20" mattress). I am optimistic that a little surface softening from one of their products will finally solve my problem. I will report back on my results. shovel
The mix of back and side is the hardest problem. |
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Thanks for posting that info. I am interested in some of those foams and this might help me decide which to try first (when I get the $ to do so). It's late so I'll read your post more thoroughly tomorrow. |
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Just wanted to note that I've been sleeping pretty good with the following configuration: From bottom up: 12.5 gauge springs (Englander) 3/4" latex somewhere around 28ILD to 32ILD 1" (fake from Overstock) Venus memory foam 1" 32 ILD natural latex No wool on top, just sheets. This is the best configuration I've had all year I think. I would still like to try an 18 or so ILD latex but for now I'm sticking with this until it doesn't work any more. Note that I only have 2 and 3/4" of foam on top of the springs. |