Mattress Forum

I am in mattress sales.  Only for about 5 months, but I have learned quite a bit in that time.  I work for a nice local company, and am not high-pressure etc.  I also just received MY iComfort Revolution today.  Can't wait to sleep on it, and I'll probably report back to let you know how it's going. 

I mainly wanted to respond to a few points that were brought up throughout this entire thread.....

Heat:  With aTempurpedic/iComfort you WILL SLEEP HOT for approx 3 weeks or so.  This is due to the severe increase in bloodflow/ciculation due to the pressure relief (in men, mainly in the shoulder areas).  That said, your body should adjust after that period.  I have yet to have an iComfort OR Tempurpedic returned for heat.  Tempurpedic reports only 4% of returns due to heat, and only 3% within our company.  Beds in general will be returned for heat issues at about 10%.

BUT, I have heard from a salesperson in our company that he wishes he had went with an icomfort over his cloud supreme because it is slightly hot.  I won't be able to compare, because I've never owned a tempurpedic.

iComfort mattresses "cool" you with their gel-infused memory foam, or so they claim.  Tempurpedic uses an "airflow" system, and also claims that their tempur material cell-structure is more uniform, thus allowing more air to flow through.  I think both are bs.

A wool or latex topper could help perhaps.  Wool may cool you slightly, while a latex topper may help cool AND provide some additional support.  The iComfort Prodigy has this, and sounds like it would have been a better choice for the OP in this case.  But you don't know until you try.

Firmness:  The info given above is correct.  The Revolution compares most closely to the Cloud Luxe.  The Supreme is a bit more firm than both.  The Genius is the most firm, and the Insight is the "medium" firmness.   HD Rhapsody is different, and a bit more firm than Rev/Clouds.  May have been a better choice for OP, but hindsight is 20/20.  Also, the brand new tempurpedic Countour series (which replaces the classic and deluxe) may be a good middle ground of softness/support.

Possible Solutions for backpain:  OP was good to try some diff pillows.  It's all about proper spinal alignment for your particular sleeping habits.  I may need a thinner pillow for my new revolution since it is rathar "plush".  Our bodies are all different, but getting that spine as straight as possible with mattress AND pillow ensures that your muscles can relax properly.

As mentioned, a latex topper may give you the support you need PLUS cool you down.  It MAY be the cheapest fix.  Or you need a more firm mattress. 

Also, an adjustable base would probably work also, but it more expensive.  OP have you tried an adjustable base?  It can really work wonders for back pain.  It may be your missing puzzle-piece, and why virtually NO MATTRESS has worked for you yet.

Returns:  I can understand the company sticking you with that mattress.  As much as I appreciate the thorough play-by-play on your mattress, in my sales experience.....you may NEVER find the perfect mattress.  Usually anyone "over-thinking" their issues this much is destined to endure an endless hunt for "perfection" which doesn't exist.  Perhaps more excersize and stretching on a regular basis is the real answer, yet the mattress will always take the blame.  I hope this isn't the case with you.  Your review seemed much more "informative" than "neurotic" in my opinion.  Regardless, the company only has so much "room" built into their retail markup to allow for returns, which is why they have a specific policy, and ALSO why the mattress "game" is so shady!  Customers want low prices, free delivery and unlimited exchanges, yet complain when they find out how much their mattress was marked up from the get-go.  Nothing is free, and you always get what you pay for. 

I hope this may have helped a bit.  I don't intend to frequent this formu, but perhaps I'll give some feedback on my revolution experience over the next few weeks.  I'm pretty sure I'll love it.  My old mattress sucked.

About the adjustable bed bases .. I would love to try one at home.  I've tried them in the stores several times and they're fantastic!

About the beds I've tried recently - I'm being extra picky this time around.  I know no bed is perfect and nothing guarantees a perfect nites sleep.  But, basically, I've had

1) a basic open coil low end mattress with 2" ordinary HD foam topper

2) entry level Stearns and Foster with 4" or ordinary foam in comfort and quilt layers

3) iComfort Revolution that is very plush.  I'm trying to make it work.  If it doesn't, it's already paid for and I can afford to get another mattress set.

Leave it to Serta to make this lineup go from Insight to Prodigy as medium, firm, ultra plush and plush.  I found the same thing with the Vera Wang latex collection.  Serta is off the mark, IMO.

A couple of comments on your comments. I do appreciate folks from the industry chiming in. I especially hope some of you insiders will help resolve some of the serious problems affecting us poor sucker consumers.

Quote: "With aTempurpedic/iComfort you WILL SLEEP HOT for approx 3 weeks or so.  This is due to the severe increase in bloodflow/ciculation due to the pressure relief (in men, mainly in the shoulder areas)." This does not seem to make sense. Pressure relief does not create heat due to increase in bloodflow/circulation,. Heat is due to lack of circulation. Think about when areas get hot due to swelling or inflamation. The blood goes to that area and stays there, and builds up there, to bring white blood cells in and fight the infection or injury. That is what causes heat - retention, not circulation.

The real problem with these gels and synthetic foams is they are not porous enough to allow for air flow and the areas that sink in especially get hot because of lack of air flow and circulation. Plain and simple. Those that worked some way around it, with air tunnels and passageways are more effective at releasing the heat and perspiration buildup. But the materials themselves do not absorb moisture released by the numan body during sleep. It runs off and builds up if there is nowhere to go.

As to "overthinking," how about the industry takes a good hard look at the "overspending" that is required to even test one of these mattresses in field conditions over enough time to know whether or not there are problems?

I agree, there is no good way of handling the need to return and exchange used mattresses.

The only solution is for mattress manufacturers and distributors is to start taking consumer complaints seriously, and create better products to resolve the real problems.

I agree that nothing about this statement makes sense. I would like to know the source for such a claim please.

edit - I talked to Serta this morning.  Lady denied there is an all new line of iComforts coming this Fall.  Seems the Mancini's mgr. is mistaken.

Go Serta!  The set is 4 weeks old!

Shine a flashlight up under your Serta StabL base foundations.  I don't think you'll be too impressed.

oh brother .. juunnkk

If this bed is borderline too soft or is already too soft...it will only get worse over time; polyurethane foams soften with use.  This is a fact, not opinion.  I think you are doing the right thing to try and look for an alternative now.

"I'm giving up on this bed.  3 1/2 weeks, neck stiff and makes noise every morning.  Pressure relieving on joints, that's the only plus.  Inadeqaute support, sink in too much. Leave it to Serta to make this lineup go from Insight to Prodigy as medium, firm, ultra plush and plush.  I found the same thing with the Vera Wang latex collection.  Serta is off the mark, IMO."

Inadequate support for your body.  Works great for me.  But I've witnessed my FAVORITE bed (Cloud Luxe) mis-align other people's spine, meaning that the support was WRONG for their body shape/size/distribution.  I disagree that the support is "inadequate".  You simply chose the wrong bed.   Also, Serta offers a "triple choice" of firmness in MOST other lines, meaning each bed can be extra-firm/luxury-firm/pillow-top.  That does make life easier for sales and consumers.  But since the iComforts are new this year, they haven't yet went to a tempur-like setup (ie: Cloud, Cloud Supreme, Cloud Luxe).  I imagine it will in a year or two.  This means that you have to deal with the 4 choices/prices as is.  Some will get lucky, and save $$ on a firmer comfort preference.  But in the long run, they will devise a way (like Tempur) to ensure that 80% of customers feel BETTER on the more expensive choice.  Once again, although you are complaining now about the selection, it comes back to making the wrong (yet informed) desicion.  I personally think that Serta is one of the best "big" brands around, but no bed company is "perfect". 

In response to the "confusion" regarding my "claim" (I am not a scientist) that you will sleep hotter for 3 weeks due to increased circulation......  It's simple.  Increased circulation to extremeties WILL raise your body's tempature.  Our bodies adapt to changes in homeostasis (I hope I'm using that term correctly here....pretty sure I am) over time, depending of course on the particular change.  The idea is, on your (my) old mattress my bloodflow to my arms was being cut off in my shoulders due to pressure points on my crappy, hard mattress.  With the new one, my arms are getting MUCH more circulation, resulting in warmer extremities.  After a few weeks, my body will "learn" this to be "normal" and will start to slightly restrict bloodflow to my arms, since my body will no longer be in fear of my (what used to be "normal") lack of blood circulation to my arms.  The user response of "Heat is due to lack of circulation" is simply false.  

"As to 'overthinking,' how about the industry takes a good hard look at the 'overspending' that is required to even test one of these mattresses in field conditions over enough time to know whether or not there are problems?" and "The only solution is for mattress manufacturers and distributors is to start taking consumer complaints seriously, and create better products to resolve the real problems."

I can't believe I'm seriously addressing these "responses" above, as they are so obviously biased and angry, I will attempt to give WeeWillyWinky an unbiased look into buisiness101.  First off, I ask consumers (namely American consumers) to take just a bit of responsibility for their purchases.  For example, if you do your research and take time listening, and learning about your mattress, odds are you'll get it right the first time.  In 5 months, I have yet to process a comfort exhange.  I work very closely with customers to find a mattress to fit their needs.  Many will fight me on this, but I will not sell a mattress to someone who barely tries it.  It WILL end up in more headaches than my commision is worth.  That said, my customers get a 100 day (damn near 3 MONTHS!!) comfort-EXHANGE program.  I have heard of comfort-return policies also, which is ridiculous.  If you buy a bed, sleep on it, return it, and buy elsewhere.....you are a selfish person.   That company paid delivery crews, gas and insurance to get your mattress to you.  The salesperson was paid commision, which will now come OUT of his/her paycheck with a return.  And the company (hopefully local, or you are hurting your economy) lost hudreds more on the shipping costs, and the loss on selling that mattress "used".  There is no reason you can't find your perfect mattress in 2 tries or less.  Otherwise, watch a documentary about poor people in 3rd-world countries who sleep on dirt floors, starving and dying of de-hydration.....then tell me how that bed feels.  And WeeWilly.....do you REALLY think that manufacturers DO NOT consider consumer complaints when they build mattresses?  If so, you can now dismiss your future opinions from this forum discussion, because you don't understand the first thing about business.  As if EVERY new development in the bedding industry comes from......space?  Heresay?  Magic?  Dreams?  Maybe a 6 yr old won a contest to design the next multi-million dollar full production run of mattresses? 

"Mgr. said they are getting the 'new' line of iComforts this Fall. So, whoever buys now is getting the 'first year model' of iComforts...." 

Could be a lie.  I've heard nothing about it, but who knows?  I've got a 25yr warranty on my iComfort, so I welcome any issues/recalls.  It's not a playstation, it's a memory-foam bed.  Not much to go wrong, other than picking the wrong one!  There will certainly be "improvements" in the future, since the iComfort line did way better than expected.  I imagine mostly that the price will increase, and they will make adjustments to the 4-bed selection.

"Hah!  Just discovered a bent piece of verticle support rod in the 'StabL Base' Serta foundation for this iComfort mattress."

Bummer.......or IS it?!!  That could be the "lack of support" you've been feeling!!  I have yet to see that issue with any of the (many) serta bases I've sold, but certainly it will happen.  So far, I've found that the serta boxes are less-noisy than the cheaper ones we sell.  Anyway, try your mat with the replacement box and let me know if it has helped any.  Curious to know how it works out.

My experience:

I love the bed.  But as mentioned before, I'm easy to please.  Just turned 30, in decent shape (5' 9'' 160 lbs) so no serisous pain/body issues to solve with me.  It's all been improvements, when compared to my crappy low-end Sealy Posturpedic (ashton extra-firm, extra free at the time!).  It's been relatively HOT for portland recently, and almost no one has (or needs) AC here.  I also have a waterproof mattress protector over the mattress, and no heat issues.  I think it sleeps a bit cooler than my old mat, but once again, that was a cheap one.

I never knew that partner disturbance was an issue, until it was eliminated with my Revolution.  I'm sleeping the WHOLE night through for once, and waking up extremely sharp and refreshed when compared to the past few years. 

My only issue is that my latex pillows are a bit to firm to give me complete and proper spinal alignment.  Not the beds fault, but it's too plush when used with my pillow.  If I had wider shoulders, I could still use them.  I'll replace them soon.

Hope that helps someone out there.  Thanks to everyone (except Wee) for your informed posts, and insight into this mattress and more.  It's been great to learn from you all here, as well as to give a little "industry" insight.....altnhough I'm just a sales-guy!  I'm just like you, but with a bit more mattress knowledge and a better discount!!  Best of luck to everyone here on finding the best bed for you!  I can't believe what a better night sleep does for me.  Amazing.  I hope you find yours. 

"I can't believe I'm seriously addressing these "responses" above, as they are so obviously biased and angry, I will attempt to give WeeWillyWinky an unbiased look into buisiness101.  First off, I ask consumers (namely American consumers) to take just a bit of responsibility for their purchases.  For example, if you do your research and take time listening, and learning about your mattress, odds are you'll get it right the first time.  In 5 months, I have yet to process a comfort exhange.  I work very closely with customers to find a mattress to fit their needs.  Many will fight me on this, but I will not sell a mattress to someone who barely tries it.  It WILL end up in more headaches than my commision is worth.  That said, my customers get a 100 day (damn near 3 MONTHS!!) comfort-EXHANGE program.  I have heard of comfort-return policies also, which is ridiculous.  If you buy a bed, sleep on it, return it, and buy elsewhere.....you are a selfish person.   That company paid delivery crews, gas and insurance to get your mattress to you.  The salesperson was paid commision, which will now come OUT of his/her paycheck with a return.  And the company (hopefully local, or you are hurting your economy) lost hudreds more on the shipping costs, and the loss on selling that mattress "used".  There is no reason you can't find your perfect mattress in 2 tries or less.  Otherwise, watch a documentary about poor people in 3rd-world countries who sleep on dirt floors, starving and dying of de-hydration.....then tell me how that bed feels.  And WeeWilly.....do you REALLY think that manufacturers DO NOT consider consumer complaints when they build mattresses?  If so, you can now dismiss your future opinions from this forum discussion, because you don't understand the first thing about business.  As if EVERY new development in the bedding industry comes from......space?  Heresay?  Magic?  Dreams?  Maybe a 6 yr old won a contest to design the next multi-million dollar full production run of mattresses? "

With all due respect how much do you think you know about this business 5 months into it?  You seem to still be in the honeymoon phase that these big businesses give two shits about the customers that buy from them. Here are some reality checks for you:

1. The first thing about business (since you seem to think WeeWilly doesn't get it) is actually to make money.  This may or may not include making the best possible product, however any company claiming that they don't care about profit is being disengenuous.  There are just some more ethical ways of getting there than others.

2. In the case of these major bed companies with their insanely high profit margins and lack of transparency contributing to customer confusion, the last 40 years has not been about making the best possible product, its been about charging the most possible for a product that is not worth the asking price. 

3. Customer feedback for the last few years has not been - cost cut on the materials, make my mattress less durable and supportive and still charge me the same price for it. These ideas for how mainstream beds are designed did not come from space but they most certainly did not come from customer feedback. More like accountants shitting their pants when times are tough and competition becomes greater.  Instead of competing on product to be the best, its been a constant undercutting of the competition...I call this 'the race to the bottom' 

4. People do actually shop around a fair bit before they buy a bed, little did the thought occur to most people that there are better choices than what the big retailers carry, they just happen to go to the few places they have heard of (through advertising) that know carry mattresses.  They spend some time laying on a few beds @ each store, realize very quickly that they all carry basically the same stuff.  And its enough to give them confidence to buy....its not always the consumers fault when they are not happy. 

5. I am also in the industry and I have had people come to me after years of sleeping on a memory foam bed (Tempur and others) say that it is too hot.  There may exist a small period of time when someone could go through some physiological changes, but perspiration is always going to be an issue.  The bloodflow has little to do with why these beds sleep hot, it is primarily from a raised humidity level near the skin that inhibits our bodies ability to regulate our own temperature which btw is almost completely done through perspiring.  If the humidity becomes too great, we feel clammy and the hot feels that much hotter, vice versa if you are a cold sleeper you will also feel even colder and may need another blanket.  Believe me there are mattresses that are significantly cooler sleeping than something made out of 100% plastic.

6. It is not selfish for someone to want to completely return a bed for the following reasons:

A) They were misled and lied to about product information

B) That the retailer does not carry the correct type of mattress to suit their needs.