Mattress Forum

If this bed is borderline too soft or is already too soft...it will only get worse over time; polyurethane foams soften with use.  This is a fact, not opinion.  I think you are doing the right thing to try and look for an alternative now.

"I'm giving up on this bed.  3 1/2 weeks, neck stiff and makes noise every morning.  Pressure relieving on joints, that's the only plus.  Inadeqaute support, sink in too much. Leave it to Serta to make this lineup go from Insight to Prodigy as medium, firm, ultra plush and plush.  I found the same thing with the Vera Wang latex collection.  Serta is off the mark, IMO."

Inadequate support for your body.  Works great for me.  But I've witnessed my FAVORITE bed (Cloud Luxe) mis-align other people's spine, meaning that the support was WRONG for their body shape/size/distribution.  I disagree that the support is "inadequate".  You simply chose the wrong bed.   Also, Serta offers a "triple choice" of firmness in MOST other lines, meaning each bed can be extra-firm/luxury-firm/pillow-top.  That does make life easier for sales and consumers.  But since the iComforts are new this year, they haven't yet went to a tempur-like setup (ie: Cloud, Cloud Supreme, Cloud Luxe).  I imagine it will in a year or two.  This means that you have to deal with the 4 choices/prices as is.  Some will get lucky, and save $$ on a firmer comfort preference.  But in the long run, they will devise a way (like Tempur) to ensure that 80% of customers feel BETTER on the more expensive choice.  Once again, although you are complaining now about the selection, it comes back to making the wrong (yet informed) desicion.  I personally think that Serta is one of the best "big" brands around, but no bed company is "perfect". 

In response to the "confusion" regarding my "claim" (I am not a scientist) that you will sleep hotter for 3 weeks due to increased circulation......  It's simple.  Increased circulation to extremeties WILL raise your body's tempature.  Our bodies adapt to changes in homeostasis (I hope I'm using that term correctly here....pretty sure I am) over time, depending of course on the particular change.  The idea is, on your (my) old mattress my bloodflow to my arms was being cut off in my shoulders due to pressure points on my crappy, hard mattress.  With the new one, my arms are getting MUCH more circulation, resulting in warmer extremities.  After a few weeks, my body will "learn" this to be "normal" and will start to slightly restrict bloodflow to my arms, since my body will no longer be in fear of my (what used to be "normal") lack of blood circulation to my arms.  The user response of "Heat is due to lack of circulation" is simply false.  

"As to 'overthinking,' how about the industry takes a good hard look at the 'overspending' that is required to even test one of these mattresses in field conditions over enough time to know whether or not there are problems?" and "The only solution is for mattress manufacturers and distributors is to start taking consumer complaints seriously, and create better products to resolve the real problems."

I can't believe I'm seriously addressing these "responses" above, as they are so obviously biased and angry, I will attempt to give WeeWillyWinky an unbiased look into buisiness101.  First off, I ask consumers (namely American consumers) to take just a bit of responsibility for their purchases.  For example, if you do your research and take time listening, and learning about your mattress, odds are you'll get it right the first time.  In 5 months, I have yet to process a comfort exhange.  I work very closely with customers to find a mattress to fit their needs.  Many will fight me on this, but I will not sell a mattress to someone who barely tries it.  It WILL end up in more headaches than my commision is worth.  That said, my customers get a 100 day (damn near 3 MONTHS!!) comfort-EXHANGE program.  I have heard of comfort-return policies also, which is ridiculous.  If you buy a bed, sleep on it, return it, and buy elsewhere.....you are a selfish person.   That company paid delivery crews, gas and insurance to get your mattress to you.  The salesperson was paid commision, which will now come OUT of his/her paycheck with a return.  And the company (hopefully local, or you are hurting your economy) lost hudreds more on the shipping costs, and the loss on selling that mattress "used".  There is no reason you can't find your perfect mattress in 2 tries or less.  Otherwise, watch a documentary about poor people in 3rd-world countries who sleep on dirt floors, starving and dying of de-hydration.....then tell me how that bed feels.  And WeeWilly.....do you REALLY think that manufacturers DO NOT consider consumer complaints when they build mattresses?  If so, you can now dismiss your future opinions from this forum discussion, because you don't understand the first thing about business.  As if EVERY new development in the bedding industry comes from......space?  Heresay?  Magic?  Dreams?  Maybe a 6 yr old won a contest to design the next multi-million dollar full production run of mattresses? 

"Mgr. said they are getting the 'new' line of iComforts this Fall. So, whoever buys now is getting the 'first year model' of iComforts...." 

Could be a lie.  I've heard nothing about it, but who knows?  I've got a 25yr warranty on my iComfort, so I welcome any issues/recalls.  It's not a playstation, it's a memory-foam bed.  Not much to go wrong, other than picking the wrong one!  There will certainly be "improvements" in the future, since the iComfort line did way better than expected.  I imagine mostly that the price will increase, and they will make adjustments to the 4-bed selection.

"Hah!  Just discovered a bent piece of verticle support rod in the 'StabL Base' Serta foundation for this iComfort mattress."

Bummer.......or IS it?!!  That could be the "lack of support" you've been feeling!!  I have yet to see that issue with any of the (many) serta bases I've sold, but certainly it will happen.  So far, I've found that the serta boxes are less-noisy than the cheaper ones we sell.  Anyway, try your mat with the replacement box and let me know if it has helped any.  Curious to know how it works out.

My experience:

I love the bed.  But as mentioned before, I'm easy to please.  Just turned 30, in decent shape (5' 9'' 160 lbs) so no serisous pain/body issues to solve with me.  It's all been improvements, when compared to my crappy low-end Sealy Posturpedic (ashton extra-firm, extra free at the time!).  It's been relatively HOT for portland recently, and almost no one has (or needs) AC here.  I also have a waterproof mattress protector over the mattress, and no heat issues.  I think it sleeps a bit cooler than my old mat, but once again, that was a cheap one.

I never knew that partner disturbance was an issue, until it was eliminated with my Revolution.  I'm sleeping the WHOLE night through for once, and waking up extremely sharp and refreshed when compared to the past few years. 

My only issue is that my latex pillows are a bit to firm to give me complete and proper spinal alignment.  Not the beds fault, but it's too plush when used with my pillow.  If I had wider shoulders, I could still use them.  I'll replace them soon.

Hope that helps someone out there.  Thanks to everyone (except Wee) for your informed posts, and insight into this mattress and more.  It's been great to learn from you all here, as well as to give a little "industry" insight.....altnhough I'm just a sales-guy!  I'm just like you, but with a bit more mattress knowledge and a better discount!!  Best of luck to everyone here on finding the best bed for you!  I can't believe what a better night sleep does for me.  Amazing.  I hope you find yours. 

"I can't believe I'm seriously addressing these "responses" above, as they are so obviously biased and angry, I will attempt to give WeeWillyWinky an unbiased look into buisiness101.  First off, I ask consumers (namely American consumers) to take just a bit of responsibility for their purchases.  For example, if you do your research and take time listening, and learning about your mattress, odds are you'll get it right the first time.  In 5 months, I have yet to process a comfort exhange.  I work very closely with customers to find a mattress to fit their needs.  Many will fight me on this, but I will not sell a mattress to someone who barely tries it.  It WILL end up in more headaches than my commision is worth.  That said, my customers get a 100 day (damn near 3 MONTHS!!) comfort-EXHANGE program.  I have heard of comfort-return policies also, which is ridiculous.  If you buy a bed, sleep on it, return it, and buy elsewhere.....you are a selfish person.   That company paid delivery crews, gas and insurance to get your mattress to you.  The salesperson was paid commision, which will now come OUT of his/her paycheck with a return.  And the company (hopefully local, or you are hurting your economy) lost hudreds more on the shipping costs, and the loss on selling that mattress "used".  There is no reason you can't find your perfect mattress in 2 tries or less.  Otherwise, watch a documentary about poor people in 3rd-world countries who sleep on dirt floors, starving and dying of de-hydration.....then tell me how that bed feels.  And WeeWilly.....do you REALLY think that manufacturers DO NOT consider consumer complaints when they build mattresses?  If so, you can now dismiss your future opinions from this forum discussion, because you don't understand the first thing about business.  As if EVERY new development in the bedding industry comes from......space?  Heresay?  Magic?  Dreams?  Maybe a 6 yr old won a contest to design the next multi-million dollar full production run of mattresses? "

With all due respect how much do you think you know about this business 5 months into it?  You seem to still be in the honeymoon phase that these big businesses give two shits about the customers that buy from them. Here are some reality checks for you:

1. The first thing about business (since you seem to think WeeWilly doesn't get it) is actually to make money.  This may or may not include making the best possible product, however any company claiming that they don't care about profit is being disengenuous.  There are just some more ethical ways of getting there than others.

2. In the case of these major bed companies with their insanely high profit margins and lack of transparency contributing to customer confusion, the last 40 years has not been about making the best possible product, its been about charging the most possible for a product that is not worth the asking price. 

3. Customer feedback for the last few years has not been - cost cut on the materials, make my mattress less durable and supportive and still charge me the same price for it. These ideas for how mainstream beds are designed did not come from space but they most certainly did not come from customer feedback. More like accountants shitting their pants when times are tough and competition becomes greater.  Instead of competing on product to be the best, its been a constant undercutting of the competition...I call this 'the race to the bottom' 

4. People do actually shop around a fair bit before they buy a bed, little did the thought occur to most people that there are better choices than what the big retailers carry, they just happen to go to the few places they have heard of (through advertising) that know carry mattresses.  They spend some time laying on a few beds @ each store, realize very quickly that they all carry basically the same stuff.  And its enough to give them confidence to buy....its not always the consumers fault when they are not happy. 

5. I am also in the industry and I have had people come to me after years of sleeping on a memory foam bed (Tempur and others) say that it is too hot.  There may exist a small period of time when someone could go through some physiological changes, but perspiration is always going to be an issue.  The bloodflow has little to do with why these beds sleep hot, it is primarily from a raised humidity level near the skin that inhibits our bodies ability to regulate our own temperature which btw is almost completely done through perspiring.  If the humidity becomes too great, we feel clammy and the hot feels that much hotter, vice versa if you are a cold sleeper you will also feel even colder and may need another blanket.  Believe me there are mattresses that are significantly cooler sleeping than something made out of 100% plastic.

6. It is not selfish for someone to want to completely return a bed for the following reasons:

A) They were misled and lied to about product information

B) That the retailer does not carry the correct type of mattress to suit their needs.

For the record, Mr. A, when I wrote that lack of circulation creates heat, I was referring to air/moisture circulation when lying on the mattress, not to the body's circulation. It seems other readers were able to pick that up, but I guess you didn't.

And, Mr. A, unfortunately I've encountered numerous salesmen of your type over too many years, and dismissive comments and misleading arguments like yours give salesmen their well-deserved bad reputation.

I've got more bad news for you. The people on this forum do take the time to find out what went wrong and what works, and why and how. They do their research. They share their knowledge and experiences with each other. The people here don't like throwing away their dollars on products that waste their money, their time, their health.

The reason this forum is necessary and active as it is documented in our pocketbooks, our disappointments, our aching bodies and sleepless nights.

Glib Insults and patronizing comments are not going to persuade anyone here that we're overthinking the problems we've experienced, or the creative solutions we're finding.

Maybe such approaches will work on the showroom floor, though, until the buyers end up here with the rest of us.

I take responisibility that I chose the wrong bed.  I had no experience that an overly plush mattress (for me) would be the beginning of mostly neck discomfort.  Now I know.

I don't know about the increased blow flow / feeling warmer sensation in bed.  It seems the excess warmth is due to lack of heat dissipation because it is not going away, the excess warmth seems permanent.

In regards to refunds, Sears policy was if you return a bed within 30 days, you are charged a 15% restocking fee and pickup.  I would have been fine with that had I known the iComfort, which was advertised with a 120 'risk free in home trial' would not be returnable in any way after exchangin to it.

As for the Stearns and Foster Hearthstone Luxury Plush (the entry level model, but still $1,125 twin XL set), the bed positively firmed up in the comfort layers for me.    I laid on that bed so many times in the store, sometimes for 20 minutes straight, and I liked it.  The feel at home by morning time was notably firmer than ever in the store.   If a retailer is selling a mattress like this, then they better offer some kind of return policy.  I don't expect to get 100% of money back.  Nor do I like to do returns.  Returns are a hassle for everyone involved. 

But as a customer, I want a bed that feels just like in the store, and I want it to maintain that comfort through the night.

Anyhoo, Mr. Veasy told me (claimed) that retailers charge a large fee (something like $5,000) per mattress to the mfrs. for every store.  He also mentioned there are other retailer fees, something called 'Spiffs' that are charged to the manufacturers.  And other fees too.  If all true, it sounded like large chunks of money are raked in by retailer from manufacturers.  Plus, apparently there are large mark ups.

If all true, no wonder the prices are high and the materials perhaps are not all that for the price.

It is business though.  And if mattress making was easy, many would be doing it at home.

Manufacturers offer spiffs to salespeople in order to gain favour/sales in many cases. I wish I could have manufacturers renting spots on my showroom though, that would be nice...maybe it works differently in the US than in Canada.

Customers and their demands help create the industry and products most commonly available.  They don't just appear out of no where and become the "norm" for no reason.  In this industry specifically, customers claim to want one thing, but go for the other.  The best example is markup/discounts.  OF COURSE we all say we want low prices and no-haggling.  But who wins time and time again?  The shady store that tells a customer they are getting a "$2,000 bed for only $800!!".  As with Tempurpedic, who controls their pricing.....customers ALWAYS demand an extra discount.  Getting the same low-price isn't enough.

So customers want quality.  Low prices.  Durability.  Made in America.  Huge warranties.  Green products/manufacturing.  Free delivery (yeah, we'll pay 2 guys $13 per hour to bring it to your home.  Plus the $50 in gas for the big truck, and we'll also insure your home.  And it'll be free.  No, we won't work it in the price anywhere......).  Free financing.  Free 10+ return policy.  Etc.  Etc.

I don't like the industry either.  I WISH I could see the same prices everywhere on all products.  I wish I didn't have to "haggle" to get a sale.  But who does want to?  You do.  The customer does.  You want everything, for nothing, just like most fat, lazy 'Mericans.  Not saying I'm innocent either.  Sure I've only been selling mattresses for 5 months, but that doesn't negate the YEARS of furniture management experience I've also had.  (Yeah, you don't know me just from a forum post, but thanks for being so quick to judge!!)

I have no agenda here.  I just wanted to share my experience as a revolution customer, as well as some insight from my perspective.  As with most forums, this has turned into an internet tough-guy shouting match, and I will no longer partake.  I'll check back to see what the deal is with that broken box, but I'm not taking part in the shouting match that this has become.  Especially since so many here have the ONLY CORRECT answer to how memory foam beds hold/dissipate heat.  Seriously, read the comment flow above.....I never stated to be ALL-KNOWING, or correct.  I simply stated my view and experience, which was promptly mis-understood.  And Wee, I did mis-understand what circulation you were referring to (blood vs air).  But before trying to make me sound like an ass whilst patting yourself on the back amidst your HIGH horse, remember that most people use the term "air-flow" when dealing with beds, and not "air-circulation".  But alas, I'm not alone in using "Glib Insults and patronizing comments", am I then? 

I must say that despite some aggression, the utter "know-it-all" responses to my opinions ("unfortunately I've encountered numerous salesmen of your type"), and people putting words in my mouth..... the original poster here has been very cordial and professional.  I at no time meant for my "overlapping" comments (such as "customers claim to want one thing, but go for the other"....) to apply directly to you.  It has been a pleasure reading your original opinions, and the experiences thereafter.  Anyone considering buying a Revolution will benefit greatly from this post and the interactions within.  I'm still curious to see if a new foundation helps your lack of support issue.  But the Revolution will always be quite plush.

And Wee.....  way to attack me personally without any real info or insight on the situation.  I'm obviously a vindictive salesman (I repeat your words "unfortunately I've encountered numerous salesmen of your type"), and most likely a liar and a theif as well.  I'm not a musician, an artist, a lover, nor do I enjoy spending my free time and energy working with non-profit organizations to better my community.  I just register as a new user to a bed-forum and spread lies all day for no money.  Yep.  Well, enjoy your time on the forums, as I'm betting you don't get much time outside in the real world.  But that's just my guess, I won't pretend to know. 

And once again.....much respect to slpngoc for an un-biased look into his/her sleep experience.  

Likewise. Your personal attacks on me and putting words in my mouth required a response.

The problem with opinions on how things work is that even though people feel they have a right to their opinions, they do not have the right to express them without criticism.  If they feel they have the right to say them that is okay, but we also have to accept the fact that with expressing opinions (especially in a discussion forum) it will also inevitably open up those opinions to criticism and or praise.  I am sorry if i upset you in anyway, however it is a well known fact that perspiring is how we cool our selves off, there is a reason the humidex plays a big role in how hot we 'feel', this is the same in the bedroom.  When humidity levels become high, perspiring becomes useless as the air is already saturated.  There probably is a modicum of truth about circulation or even just being on a soft mattress that has more contact with the body will make someone feel cosier.  I repeatedly bring this up because perhaps the OP would not have had an issue with heat if they had a woolen mattress protector instead of a plastic one.  However this is a moot point as clearly it is not supportive enough for them anyway and the mattress will only get softer with use. 

This is not an internet tough guy match, but you are the one spouting your credentials and you quite literally said "I'm just like you, but with a bit more mattress knowledge and a better discount!! "  If it feels like a yelling match maybe its because you use a lot of exclimation points.  No one is attacking you, but clearly you did something to make others feel defensive.

You are extremely wrong to assume that you have more mattress knowledge than posters on this forum.  The vast majority of posters here are on the consumer front but their are a lot of bright people here who know far more than the average consumer and the average salesperson.