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Hi, First, thanks for this forum - it's a great resource. I only wish I'd discovered it a few weeks ago! At any rate, I recently purchased a new Simmons beautyrest firm, non-pillowtop mattress (yes, I'm aware of the concerns about Simmons, but apparently the firm mattresses use a heavier gauge wire in the coils less prone to sagging). The mattress is uncomfortably firm, and I believe it is seriously exacerbating my previously-mild lower back pain. I read in the very helpful newbie thread that one should always get the firmest mattress possible and then add toppers as needed, but my concern is that a too-firm mattress isn't allowing my hips and shoulders (I'm a side sleeper) to sink sufficiently to keep my spine aligned (and there appears to be some support [no pun intended!] for this hypothesis: http://www.webmd.com/back-pain/news/20031113/best-mattress-for-lower-back-pain). I did try a 3 inch memory foam topper (fairly dense) and it seemed to help but could only tolerate one night due to it being way too hot. I am thus considering availing myself of Sleepy's exchange policy to get a less firm mattress (probably sleep to live, which I know gets quite a few negative reviews, or a plus simmons, which will be more prone to sagging than the firm one I currently have). The other option is to try other toppers. I have a few questions: - I understand that toppers can alleviate pressure points in a firm mattress, but will toppers also allow enough sinking to ensure proper spinal alignment? Might a plush mattress be better, not for comfort but for alignment? - I've seen "cool" MF topper advertised - does anyone have actual experience with MF toppers that slept cool? - Would a latex topper be a better choice? I know it wouldn't have the head issue , but would it allow enough sinking to ensure proper alignment? Any other topper recommendations? Any other thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! This message was modified Oct 28, 2010 by adamjs
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adamjs wrote: Thanks again Sandman, I realize these are just your opinions but it's all very helpful.
I just got a reply from the Therapedic and apparently the 3" MF I've been using is only 2.5 lbs! I found this surprising, but I have nothing to compare it to. Assuming this is correct, I think the 4 lb mem-cool would probably be supportive enough. As I use the current topper more, I appreciate its comfort but am realizing it's not quite supportive enough, but it doesn't seem like it needs to be drastically more supportive. So I think I'll start by trying 2" mem-cool. In terms of the cover, I actually don't know what the 16 oz refers to - I assumed it was per square yard but it doens't explicitly state that, so who knows? So I think I will try a wool topper. I'm leaning toward the Costco one, but I am a bit concerned that the fact that it's waterproof means it will be hotter. Any thoughts on this? 2.5lbs is pretty low. However, support is also a function of how it is made. I believe the more open breathable ones provide less suppport than the more traditional types. At least that has been my experience. I have an older piece of 3.6lb density that seemed more supportive than the 5lb (breathable) Aerus. Most seem to agree that lower density does not last as long. So, yours may be okay for support now, but might lose in a few years. I am not crazy about the waterproof aspect, but not sure if make a noticable difference. All else equal, I would get one that was not waterproof. You can also buy washable (non waterproof) Natura ones. |
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"Most seem to agree that lower density does not last as long. So, yours may be okay for support now, but might lose in a few years." Or a few months in many cases at densities this low. I am still a big believer that "support" in a real sense does not come from the memory foam layers no matter what type of memory foam is in the layer. This is why there are no pure memory foam mattresses on the market (to my knowledge). Having said that, I believe the denser memory foams will create a "sense of greater support" since they will often (depending on brand and specs) have a "firmer" feel feel to them when they are "unmelted" by body heat and pressure. You would tend to not sink in as far in a denser memory foam layer (again this would depend on brand) and this I believe can "translate" into a sense of greater support depending on the layers underneath. I believe that true support (the ability to keep your spine aligned through some form of pushback) comes from the layers under the memory foam. Someone would need to be really lucky to get correct support from a memory foam layer (correct spinal alignment at the depth the memory foam allows you to sink in) and even then it would probably only be correct in a particular sleeping position and for a limited time as each different position (or the length of time spent in one position) would change the characteristics of the memory foam (different heat/pressure distribution for each position or length of time). The top layers of memory foam are more about comfort and pressure distribution and how easily they allow you to sink in/through to the supportive layers underneath. In other words, I believe that firmer memory foam comfort layers do not offer greater support but they do offer a firmer "feel" by not allowing a sleeper to sink in quite as far. The thinner the memory foam layer and the closer to your body it is, the more easily you would go through it (again depending on brand and density) and the greater the influence of the layers underneath on the perceived feel of the memory foam itself. Phoenix This message was modified Nov 4, 2010 by Phoenix
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Yes, it may last less than a few years. I am not sure what the breakdown rate is in memory foam vs. PU foam. I think more gradual, sinces it already starts soft, but not sure. I would say that memory foam provides some support, but not a lot. No support to me would mean that you would sink in the full amount of the thickness of the foam. I am fairly confident that is not the case. I am pretty sure that if you slept on a 10" piece of memory foam, the maximum compression would not be 9.999". Therefore, it is providing some level of support.
However, it is possible that in some memory foams, when warmed up, you might sink in 80% or more in the heaviest areas. It would be interesting to have a measure of how far you sink it sinks in at a higher temperature and after a certain amount of time. A firm piece of latex would sink in considerably less than the 80%. I also think there is some difference in the amount of support in different memory foams. Although I have no way to measure it, I don't think I would sink in as far on a 3" piece of 5lb Senus as I would in a 3" piece of 5lb. Aerus. This message was modified Nov 4, 2010 by sandman
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I think that we are using the term "support" in different ways. Memory foam does compress and is not completely "viscous" so in the sense that it will stop compressing before you go through the layer yes it does provide support. However I have been using "support" in the sense of it's ability to "push back" and change in "real time" to provide correct "spinal alignment" in different positions as opposed to "pressure relief". In this meaning of support (resilience), memory foam is a very poor material and is not supportive in nature ... no matter what it's density or composition. In the way that you are using it, there are more and less supportive memory foams however in the way that I mean it, no memory foam can be supportive to the degree that is necessary in an overall mattress construction. I believe that it would be helpful to alleviate the misunderstanding surrounding memory foam to call it "firmer or softer" which is a measure of how far you can sink in as opposed to "more or less supportive". This is why it always needs a supportive (more resilient) underlying layer. Stopping the "sinking in" process and "support" for me mean different things and while I realize that this may not be an issue with some, I believe that this confusion is part of the reason for the misunderstanding and misinformation about memory foam in general . I posted some of my thoughts/beliefs about this in a new thread. Phoenix This message was modified Nov 5, 2010 by Phoenix
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Thanks for chiming in Phoenix, and thanks as always Sandman. Your recent posts raise a question for me. I had pretty much decided to exchange my current MF for either 2" mem-cool or 2.5" 5lb Aerus. The two objectives I'm trying to solve are 1) comfort, and 2) alignment (in that I suspect the firmness of my mattress doesn't allow my hips and shoulders to sink enough as I sleep on my side). After reading the last posts, I'm wondering if 2) will actually be solved by MF. I guess the question is, will I have the right sinking "pattern" with MF - ie, will my shoulders and hips sink the right amount, relative to my torso, legs, head, etc.? If MF isn't truly supportive, then that seems to imply that I won't. |
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adamjs wrote: Thanks for chiming in Phoenix, and thanks as always Sandman. Your recent posts raise a question for me. I had pretty much decided to exchange my current MF for either 2" mem-cool or 2.5" 5lb Aerus. The two objectives I'm trying to solve are 1) comfort, and 2) alignment (in that I suspect the firmness of my mattress doesn't allow my hips and shoulders to sink enough as I sleep on my side). After reading the last posts, I'm wondering if 2) will actually be solved by MF. I guess the question is, will I have the right sinking "pattern" with MF - ie, will my shoulders and hips sink the right amount, relative to my torso, legs, head, etc.? If MF isn't truly supportive, then that seems to imply that I won't. So, the real key is to find the right level of support and comfort. Some do that will all latex, some do that with just memory foam, some do it with a combination (my case), some do it with other methods. Ultimately, each one of us will have a different preference. That is part is why I advocate use small increments of memory foam and latex, to be able to fine tune, and to be able find out what works for you. Unfortunately there is no way around the trial and error. Some people are lucky on their first try. Some are very tolerant of almost any combination. I also advocate wool filled toppers and/or mattress pad to help with overheating. That helps for many people, but there is no gurarantee it will work for you.
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| too firm mattress is not good for back pain. If a person is having a back pain problem then medium firm mattress is best for him because it is neither too hard nor too soft. |