Why is there infinite trouble selecting a mattress for person with low back pain?
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Why is mattress selection close to impossible for a anyone with low back pain? why are mattress makers using different names for the same mattresses in different stores? Why are they making it so hard to compare mattresses? Is this some kind of scam? Why is it that man has gone to moon but mattress makers can't make a mattress for people with low back pain? I have a herniated disk and wake up with aches and extremely tired every day. Life is hell or close to it. It can't get any worse. thanks for honest replies. This message was modified Jan 25, 2010 by lowbacpain
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Re: Why is there infinite trouble selecting a mattress for person with low back pain?
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Hi, I got tired of springs popping up in my back in very expensive beds and just recently changed to Latex. I got an all natural Talalay latex bed by FloBeds. I highly recommend you take a look at their site. Their VZone lets you customize the support to how you need it for the different parts of the body. I put a firmer layer in my lumbar area to support my lower back pain. So, I feel for your pain and thought you should know that my husband has several herniated discs in his cervical spine with lots of other associated issues and has been going to physical therapy for the past two months to strengthen the area. Well, after about 10 days on his new bed...his physical therapist noticed a huge improvement in him without knowing he was sleeping on a new bed! He feels a lot better since and once he hit the newer VZone the other day, even better still (yet he thought his bed was perfect before that!). So much so that his therapist actually released him from therapy the other day! We also splurged and got him a zero-gravity Perfect Chair recliner (sold at Relax the Back store) because his neck needs support when he is sitting around..couches seem to encourage terrible posture and lack of support. The chair also really helps take the pressure off your spine. (We're doing all we can to keep him from what I call an "outage!" When these attacks come on, he is completely incapacitated and out of work for up to 6 weeks at a time.) Also, I have arthritic like symptoms and woke up every day in pain and exhausted after tossing and turning like a dead fish all night long. Both he and I feel like new humans now so I am a serious supporter of latex. Go read up on it and go read the thread "I just got a new FloBeds" started by eagle2. There is a wealth of info there that may help you, Good luck! TJ |
Re: Why is there infinite trouble selecting a mattress for person with low back pain?
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DING DING DING DING!!! You've just asked the MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION! The answer is that the big mattress companies only care about making $$$, and so they churn out mattresses that feel good in the show room... then break down quickly... As to how to actually find - or build - a mattress that will help your lower back pain, The answer is here on this forum. Search on this forum for: flobeds sleepez overnightmattress and mattress surgery One of these methods/companies should help you. Good luck! |
Re: Why is there infinite trouble selecting a mattress for person with low back pain?
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jimsocal wrote: DING DING DING DING!!! You've just asked the MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION! The answer is that the big mattress companies only care about making $$$, and so they churn out mattresses that feel good in the show room... then break down quickly... As to how to actually find - or build - a mattress that will help your lower back pain, The answer is here on this forum. Search on this forum for: flobeds sleepez overnightmattress and mattress surgery One of these methods/companies should help you. Good luck! Let me cut all the BS. Are you saying that Mattress makers are running a scam? So people get bad products and these mattresses break down quickly. And that that is why these mattress makers are duping customers when they sell same mattress with different brand names in diffferent stores so customers cannot do a thoughtful shopping? I think so. May be CONGRESS should step up to the plate and pass laws/rules forcing these scammers into not duping customers. Thanks. And God bless. |
Re: Why is there infinite trouble selecting a mattress for person with low back pain?
| it is definitely the way the main stream brands operate. this is just one more reason why smaller companies have honesty built right in. When it comes to the "S" brands or any other manufacturer that works the same way (same beds, different names in different stores), there really is no such thing as an MSRP (Manufacturers suggested retail price) because there is absolutely no transparency. When you see one of these beds being listed @ 50% off 'market price' or 'suggested price' that is literally 50% off of their own completely fabricated number that they just assigned to the bed. It is a lot easier with certain brands to sift through all of this, so long as they use the same names everywhere. But hey, its capitalism...not really a lot you can do except to decide yourself NOT to purchase from these brands. |
Re: Why is there infinite trouble selecting a mattress for person with low back pain?
| Budgy, would you say that the basic springs are okay in the S brands and the main problem is in the foam? Or are they now cutting corners in the springs as well? Do the interlaced springs (like Sealy uses) last longer than the pocketed coils? |
Re: Why is there infinite trouble selecting a mattress for person with low back pain?
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Planned obsolescence, I would assume. The more often you replace your mattress, the higher the industry profits. It doesn't make sense for them to sell you a mattress that will eliminate you as a customer for the next 20 or 30 years; if they want to sell more mattresses they need you and everybody else to come back more often. So they reduce the longevity of their products. People with back pain are their most valuable customers. We're willing to pay more than most people to get some relief. All they need to do is sell us a mattress that feels good at first. We'll be back when we can no longer stand it. Linda |
Re: Why is there infinite trouble selecting a mattress for person with low back pain?
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sandman wrote: Budgy, would you say that the basic springs are okay in the S brands and the main problem is in the foam? Or are they now cutting corners in the springs as well? Do the interlaced springs (like Sealy uses) last longer than the pocketed coils? I would be curious as to what Budgy or anyone else who has industry experience would say about this. I have used cheap Sealy springs and now cheap Englander springs and both seem to be pretty decent springs - I'm sure not anywhere near "great" springs but good enough, I think. My Sealy springs did seem to be breaking down after 4 years or so and I weigh 170-180 lb so that's not a long time. I'm not SURE they broke down but they seemed to be broken down so that's why I bought the Englander springs which are a little heavier gauge. I know one "custom" manufacturer I spoke with who uses only standard 14 (or was it 13?) gauge Bonnell springs, but I've heard it said it also depends on where the springs are made, how they're tempered etc. - info that - believe me! - will be next to impossible to get from any mattress store or even from the manufacturer! And my humble opinion - admittedly I'm not an expert - is that it is the PU foam that is the problem, most of the time, not the springs. I've always heard that S&F have good springs ... When I get more money to spend on it some day I want to do some research and try to buy some really excellent springs. So along with Sandman's question I will add this: Who makes really good springs nowadays (okay, I know Leggett and Platt make most of them, but I mean, which S co. sells good springs)? And: Is there ANY way to buy an unfinished mattress, with the enclosure and springs but no foam, no quilted top, etc.? I figured the answer was no, thus I bought a cheap Englander and did surgery immediately. |
Re: Why is there infinite trouble selecting a mattress for person with low back pain?
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Polyurethane foam is undoubtedly (from the consumer POV) the worst thing to be implemented in mattress construction in a long time. It is actually to the point that I now blatantly tell people that I have no problem selling them a pillowtop bed if they are okay with the prospect of replacing it every few years which is very likely possible. What I do try my best to do is offer people as many ways out of that cycle as I can. Usually this costs people more up front, but in the end they are usually much happier. Of all the warrantied mattresses I have seen (and the ones that should have been warrantied but were denied by manufacturers) I can count less than a handful of beds that actually had legitimate spring failures. The other ones that I have completely lost count of were undoubtedly caused by polyurethane foam breaking down prematurely (or right on schedule if you want my honest opinion). Leggett and Platt does produce a lot of springs for a lot of manufacturers, but we also have a lot of things being brought in from overseas these days. Some companies still produce their own in house, but not necessarily for all of their mattresses, just the more expensive ones. As far as tempering steel goes, its completely unnecessary if the coils are designed correctly and good quality steel is used in the first place. The main reason it is done today is because of the mass production itself. If a coil is made overseas or across the country from where the final mattress construction is done the coils are usually tempered. I can't really think of any built this way that are not tempered to be honest. It is because they vacuum pack the coils down to maybe 5% of their full height before they get put on a truck, train or boat before they get shipped to their factory destination. The tempering is done for shipping reasons, not as an end benefit to the customer. As far as if any cost cutting has happened with coils we are starting to see a little bit of that, one good example, Simmons pocket coils for the longest time were always wrapped in oversized cotton shells for its ability to breathe and also to allow the coils to move somewhat freely and do what they are intended to do. Very recently they made the switch to really stiff polyester shells just barely big enough to hold the coils, they can hardly move now without effecting the surrounding coils effectively making them behave almost like any interactive type coil joined by helical lacing wires. But in short, all of these things are minor compared to the copious amounts of foam used in most mattresses. |
Re: Why is there infinite trouble selecting a mattress for person with low back pain?
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budgy wrote: Polyurethane foam is undoubtedly (from the consumer POV) the worst thing to be implemented in mattress construction in a long time. It is actually to the point that I now blatantly tell people that I have no problem selling them a pillowtop bed if they are okay with the prospect of replacing it every few years which is very likely possible. What I do try my best to do is offer people as many ways out of that cycle as I can. Usually this costs people more up front, but in the end they are usually much happier. But in short, all of these things are minor compared to the copious amounts of foam used in most mattresses. Budgy, thanks for confirming what I thought to be true! I am surprised you even say: "I have no problem selling them a pillowtop bed if they are okay with the prospect of replacing it every few years which is very likely possible. " I say this because I personally know people and have read on this and other forums where people bought a pillow-top and had to IMMEDIATELY replace it due to lower back pain from the non-supportive foam. OR, they had to "eat" their purchase because the "copious amounts of foam" broke down in a month or two after they could not replace it or exchange it. My sister-in-law is one of those. One more question: Are the springs from, say, a 15-20 year old S company bed made better than the springs are made now ? And are they likely to still have good springs after that time? And aside from being flippable, what makes an older bed better? Is it that they used LESS foam or did they use something INSTEAD of foam, or ??? I have recently slept on 2 older mattresses - not sure how old - and both felt infinitely better than the Sealy and the Englander I bought within the last 5 years, both of which were basically terrible. In fact if it weren't so far away I would offer to buy my friend's mattress from his guest bedroom! I slept on it for 4 nights and woke up feeling fine each morning. I am going to ask him if he can find out the model etc. so I can try to get specs on it. Is there any way to get specs on an old mattress? |
Re: Why is there infinite trouble selecting a mattress for person with low back pain?
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yeah, you know Jim, you are right. I can't even guarantee people really any time on a normal mattress. Unless they bought one with say less than 2" of PU foam I know that wouldn't break down too much and I don't really see any customer issues with this unless its too firm and then we sell people toppers at our cost to correct the comfort issue. I have had customers wear out thicker pillowtop mattresses within a span of months thankfully to get warrantied and then put them into different product altogether. These people are usually not upset with us because we do warn them that the beds won't last forever, and as long as you can look after them they will usually be happy because they know you told the truth from the beginning, and unlike the guy across the street I didn't tell them it will last 10 years as the warranty implies. But you would be surprised how many people still want to buy these types of beds even after being warned lol. Maybe I am not a very good salesperson because not everyone believes me haha. And yeah other then being flippable most beds back in the day either had very minimal PU foam or it was usually all just cotton batting and heavy damask grade fabric covers that tended to be very durable as well. Granted you can also debate that these types of mattresses were not the most comfortable either, but if you could buy something similar, add a latex topper or some other natural fibre topper you atleast wouldn't have to replace the mattress very often. EDIT: To answer your question the springs themselves, I honestly don't know if there has been any large changes in terms of the quality of steel used. But I do maintain my position that most coils do last pretty well these days. Will they be the same in 15~20 years, no, especially the lacing wires on interactive coils because they are made from thinner guage steel than the coils themselves. Thing is metal does fatigue, twisting bending, compressing, it all fatigues metal bit by bit over time. I know this from many different applications, even cars lose a great deal of structural rigidity over their life as the chassis absorbs energy from the suspension, it twists, and goes through various stresses that all weaken the structure of the car over time, coils are susceptible to the same basic type of wear and tear, but as far as how much...I can't say. If someone could actually test the spring rate of a coil when it was brand new and then test it after 20 years of simulated wear and tear than we would know exactly how much the metal has fatigued. This message was modified Jan 28, 2010 by budgy
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