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I'm up to my ears in research and found this site. I keep seeing reference that is almost a warning to the 'S' brands = I know this means the big name brands and I have studied them and all others to a faretheewell. We had a Simmons BeautyRest for many years, it is on it's second life at our son's house and he still loves it. From the BeautyRest we went to a memory foam based on medical advice, even though it stunk like mad for a few weeks we slept pain free and it was great for two and half years before something happened and it started being really hot and making me sick. We pulled a Serta from the guest room and are making do, we had immediate relief from whatever the memory foam was doing to us, it was astounding, but the springs are beating me up nightly despite a topper and I can't stand the motion transfer. We had a Sealy Posturpedic for a daybed, not the best choice. I've considered latex, but have MCS and am really wary of the smell. I sleep on wool pillows and wool fleece topper, but know that a wool mattress is going to be too firm for me. I get dizzy with all the information and don't see any way I can not try out a new mattress. I'm fortunate to have many locations nearby to find organic mattresses and all those big brands - but it's exhausting and I'm shortening my shopping list. (The tips are fabulous here). Bottom line of this post is basically, "what is so terrible about the 'S' brands?" Aside from mass production and corporate retailers.... I have found a local company who will make a latex bed and if we don't like it they will change the core - but if that's not good it's too bad. They will make me an innerspring with a good layer or natural material, but not coil springs which means motion transfer. I found another where I tried various combinations of latex or wool mattresses with toppers, this is why I think the wool may be too firm. The majority of natural mattress companies do not have guarantees for satisfaction and at 2 to 3 thousand dollars that's a bit scairy. My research shows that Stearns & Foster as well as Simmons make a line that sort of crosses over the natural and the coils thinking and they have total satisfaction guarantee. I'm a curvy gal at 5'2" 130lbs and have many health issues (arthritis and fibromyalgia for starters) - hubby is six foot 155 and not nearly as picky as I am, but this old Serta is messing up his back also. Help!?! |
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Heres my take on the "S" brands based solely on 3 weeks of personal research, so take it for what its worth. They don't offer much value for their product lines. Their inexpensive to moderate lines use very inexpensive materials which break down quickly and don't last very long (normally only up to a few years), and they design their warranties so that it is very hard to get them to honor them. The"S" brands higher end beds can be well made with better materials, but often times at a price which is considerably more than comparable options from some of the smaller companies. Regarding a latex mattress, flobeds offers a reasonably priced product with a very nice return policy. You could try one of their beds for up to 100 days with minimal risk. I'd also consider using the local company you found to build you an innerspring using quality materials, even if they're not using individual coil springs. This message was modified Jan 13, 2012 by megalops
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Hi! I would like to add some input here as I've been thru it all I think. Serta Simmons and Sealy all make a nice mattress. I like Serta the best because of the coil architecture. Simmmons, individual springs, there is no support, they will keep sinking, no matter the gauge. Sealy, never again. Why? Bonnell coil. Also to be considered is the foundation. What happened to the box spring? Now it's just a cheap structure of stiff wire with no give and nothing more than a waste. When they made real box springs, the mattress could sink in and it was a system of support. Not now. I have a nice Serta mattress resting on a firm foam base with a latex topper. My solution. Consumers need to be very savvy with their bedding choices. |
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megalops wrote: Heres my take on the "S" brands based solely on 3 weeks of personal research, so take it for what its worth. They don't offer much value for their product lines. Their inexpensive to moderate lines use very inexpensive materials which break down quickly and don't last very long (normally only up to a few years), and they design their warranties so that it is very hard to get them to honor them. The"S" brands higher end beds can be well made with better materials, but often times at a price which is considerably more than comparable options from some of the smaller companies. Regarding a latex mattress, flobeds offers a reasonably priced product with a very nice return policy. You could try one of their beds for up to 100 days with minimal risk. I'd also consider using the local company you found to build you an innerspring using quality materials, even if they're not using individual coil springs.
So I am thinking I am a long way from being finito with the nightly battle, yet am on a good road. |
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francis61 wrote: Hi! I would like to add some input here as I've been thru it all I think. Serta Simmons and Sealy all make a nice mattress. I like Serta the best because of the coil architecture. Simmmons, individual springs, there is no support, they will keep sinking, no matter the gauge. Sealy, never again. Why? Bonnell coil. Also to be considered is the foundation. What happened to the box spring? Now it's just a cheap structure of stiff wire with no give and nothing more than a waste. When they made real box springs, the mattress could sink in and it was a system of support. Not now. I have a nice Serta mattress resting on a firm foam base with a latex topper. My solution. Consumers need to be very savvy with their bedding choices. The first mattress we purchased was a really good SImmons, which replaced an old one of same brand - I can still lay on it when I go see my son and wife and the foundation is very different from current one - so they put a good memory there as far as purchasing. If you're happy with such for twenty years you think you're onto something... So we figured another Simmons would work - I've put toppers of all kinds on it and like most folks on this forum I'm still gritting my teeth and staying sore. I have a huge problem with the rail around the edge and the springs feel like a box of rocks with horrid motion transfer. No way am I going back to this retailer, despite their popularitity and you are so right about being an informed consumer - who knew getting a good night's sleep would be such an exercise. |
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What's the matter with S-Brands? Well mostly the problem is that they put too much cheap non-supportive foam on top of them which quickly breaks down and then provides NO support. This is especially true with pillowtops which one should avoid like the plague. Get a firmer mattress then add your own 1-2" of soft latex to soften it up while providing good and long-lasting support. So the biggest problem with S-Brands is that they use cheap non-supportive, non-lasting foams. Sometimes they do use very good springs though, which paves the way for doing mattress surgery to replace their cheap foam with good foams. Personally I have heard nothing but bad things about Serta. They are considered by many within the mattress industry to be the worst of the S-Brands. YMMV. My own research has led me to believe that a high-end S&F or Simmons is probably your best bet with the S-brands. But if you buy an S-brand just avoid pillowtops, go wtih Firm and add your own toppers to soften it up. |
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SallySmiles wrote: I'm up to my ears in research and found this site. I keep seeing reference that is almost a warning to the 'S' brands = I know this means the big name brands and I have studied them and all others to a faretheewell. We had a Simmons BeautyRest for many years, it is on it's second life at our son's house and he still loves it. From the BeautyRest we went to a memory foam based on medical advice, even though it stunk like mad for a few weeks we slept pain free and it was great for two and half years before something happened and it started being really hot and making me sick. We pulled a Serta from the guest room and are making do, we had immediate relief from whatever the memory foam was doing to us, it was astounding, but the springs are beating me up nightly despite a topper and I can't stand the motion transfer. We had a Sealy Posturpedic for a daybed, not the best choice. I've considered latex, but have MCS and am really wary of the smell. I sleep on wool pillows and wool fleece topper, but know that a wool mattress is going to be too firm for me. I get dizzy with all the information and don't see any way I can not try out a new mattress. I'm fortunate to have many locations nearby to find organic mattresses and all those big brands - but it's exhausting and I'm shortening my shopping list. (The tips are fabulous here). Bottom line of this post is basically, "what is so terrible about the 'S' brands?" Aside from mass production and corporate retailers.... I have found a local company who will make a latex bed and if we don't like it they will change the core - but if that's not good it's too bad. They will make me an innerspring with a good layer or natural material, but not coil springs which means motion transfer. I found another where I tried various combinations of latex or wool mattresses with toppers, this is why I think the wool may be too firm. The majority of natural mattress companies do not have guarantees for satisfaction and at 2 to 3 thousand dollars that's a bit scairy. My research shows that Stearns & Foster as well as Simmons make a line that sort of crosses over the natural and the coils thinking and they have total satisfaction guarantee. I'm a curvy gal at 5'2" 130lbs and have many health issues (arthritis and fibromyalgia for starters) - hubby is six foot 155 and not nearly as picky as I am, but this old Serta is messing up his back also. Help!?! An all foam mattress does the best for motion transfer reduction. Latex, Memory Foam, or just High Density Poly Foam will all perform equally in that aspect. With Poly Foam of anytype including Memory Foam it does have an odor from manufacturing, but this dissipates over time. The newer the foam is from the manfacturing plant the stronger the smell. Also the higher the density of the foam the longer it takes for the odor to dissipate. Now the Stearns & Foster and Simmons both use Synthetic Latex and not 100% Natural latex and that is their crossover. They are both very good beds, but I dont want you to be mislead into thinking they are 100% Natural Latex when they are infact Synthetic Latex. Natural Latext will not have the odor like the poly foams or memory foam.
Bottom Line as to what is so wrong with the "S" Brands is Success. |
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francis61 wrote: Hi! I would like to add some input here as I've been thru it all I think. Serta Simmons and Sealy all make a nice mattress. I like Serta the best because of the coil architecture. Simmmons, individual springs, there is no support, they will keep sinking, no matter the gauge. Sealy, never again. Why? Bonnell coil. Also to be considered is the foundation. What happened to the box spring? Now it's just a cheap structure of stiff wire with no give and nothing more than a waste. When they made real box springs, the mattress could sink in and it was a system of support. Not now. I have a nice Serta mattress resting on a firm foam base with a latex topper. My solution. Consumers need to be very savvy with their bedding choices. Serta uses the continous coil which in fact is the lightest spring unit in the industry using the least amount of steel. It does have a decent design and holds up fairly well depending on which unit you get. In their starting line they use the Bonnell coil. Simmons individually pocketed coil system is great for motion transfer as it doesnt distribute your weight across the bed so you do give up some duarbility. You dont give up support, because you are sleeping on more coils in most Breauty Rest then you do on any other mattress. It just doesnt maintian that level of support as long as a Sealy or Serta. Simmons Also uses the Bonnell Coil in their base line mattress's Sealy Use's an offset coil system in their Posutrepedic line which has been proven by Sealy, Stearns & Foster, and many other manufactures to be the longest lasting coil system in the industry. It does transfer motion more than the individually pocketed coil system, but each coil has 5 turns and each turn is the same diameter at the top as it is in the middle and on the bottom. Sealy like most other manufactures use the Bonnell coil in their base line and not in the posturepedic. Boxprings versus foundations - A boxspring was design to work with certian innerspring mattress sets and increase the life of a mattress that is usign a Continous coil, Bonnell Coil, or Offset Coil. The boxspring flexed and took some of the stress off the actual coil system increasing the life of the mattress some. It also made the mattress feel a little softer and a little bouncy. So they increased strength in these boxsprings in Sealy and Stearns so they dont flex as much but they still do flex. Foundtions work best For individually pocketed coils and foam beds. The pocketed coil system actually last longer and provides mroe support on a foundation then it does on a boxspring. These coils are not tied together and do not distribute your weight across the bed. The flexing of a boxspring would tend to pull the pocted coils out of alignment and had caused the mattress to wear out very quickly. This is why Simmons had a very high return rate for several years until they swtiched to a steel foundation and their return rate droped drastically. The all foam doesnt work well on a boxspring becuase the foam will begin to pocket down into the wire grid or coils underneath it. The Serta on a firm foam base will perform well. You will need to change the base out in 4 to 5 years to be able to maintain the support the mattress systems needs, but it should provide a plush feel and the mattress may even last 15yrs or better if you continue to change out the foam base every few years. The Bonnell Coil is the most widely used coil system in the world and has been for more than 70 years and that is because every innerspring mattress manufacture uses the Boonell coil system in some of their beds. This message was modified Jan 18, 2012 by DaveStro
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jimsocal wrote: What's the matter with S-Brands? Well mostly the problem is that they put too much cheap non-supportive foam on top of them which quickly breaks down and then provides NO support. This is especially true with pillowtops which one should avoid like the plague. Get a firmer mattress then add your own 1-2" of soft latex to soften it up while providing good and long-lasting support. So the biggest problem with S-Brands is that they use cheap non-supportive, non-lasting foams. Sometimes they do use very good springs though, which paves the way for doing mattress surgery to replace their cheap foam with good foams. Personally I have heard nothing but bad things about Serta. They are considered by many within the mattress industry to be the worst of the S-Brands. YMMV. My own research has led me to believe that a high-end S&F or Simmons is probably your best bet with the S-brands. But if you buy an S-brand just avoid pillowtops, go wtih Firm and add your own toppers to soften it up. |
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Dave, with all due respect the Bonnel coils used in S Mattresses are always used in their bottom of the line mattresses. Bonnell coils were the main mattress coil system for a long time but they are looked down upon now by just about anyone in the mattress industry. They're okay for guest beds or kids but not for adults, especially adults with sleep issues such as bad backs, shoulders, etc. As to pillow tops, I submit that there is virtually no S Company using more than just one very thin layer of latex in their pillow tops. You're going to find cheap polyurethane and visco foams (not even the good stuff) in those mattress "pillow tops". I stand by my statement that pillow tops are to be avoided because they are made from cheap foam and break down very quickly leading to a lack of support and back pain for many people. One's best bet is to get a firm mattress and add one's own pillowtop by buying 1, 2 or 3" of latex of ILDs of your liking, 14-24ILD, I'd say. If memory foam is to be used, add it oneself because it will break down quicker than latex and you'll want to replace it when it starts hurting your back. Personally I can only tolerate memory foam for a week or two before it starts to hurt my back and I've tried the heavy, good quality stuff, not the cheap junk most S companies put into their toppers. Dave, do you work for a mattress company or did you? It's fine if you did, but I'm just curious because you seem to have a pro-S Co. bias. To say that the problem with S Co's is that they are successful is simply nonsense. I could give you about a dozen reasons as to their problems, from misleading customers by using different names at each store, to hiding the truth beneath misnomers and not revealing the actual contents of their mattresseses on those "foot of the bed" signs you see in all the stores. Want me to go on? I don't mean to be impolite but when you say the problem with S Co's is their success you are way off base in my humble opinion and I have spent a lot of time studying and researching mattresses and worked in the mattress industry for a short time - long enough to learn all the b.s. that goes on! |
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Interesting information, thank you all. Success or successful advertising - whatever, they are still around for a reason. I understand profit is the nature of business and I don't even blame them for inventing the no-turn mattresses. I haven't the energy or strength to turn a mattress regularly so I bougt into that. My personal take is that in order to get a mattress without all the chemicals and cheap filler I have to go to the top tier of Stearns and Foster. The chemicals have darn near killed me as it is. Why would I do that? Well I for one would really like to try the bed before purchasing, although in all honesty the odds are 50/50 even then. I'd prefer to not have to drive around for days on end to find a mattress, but I live outside a major metro area and I have health issues - by the time I've gone so far then I'm too darn tired to do the hours of up and down. What I have nearby is easy access to the S brands, Costco, and some brands you could not pay me to sleep on because they are toxic. I'd rather buy from the little guy who sells top notch handmade mattresses made out of things that are natural and not chemical based. I'd rather have my bed delivered and set up. I'd rather have my old bed hauled off (no charity does pick up where I live), but that I can work around. Now here I am considering building my own mattress... Internet is a wonderful thing, but why wouldn't I be terrified of spending thousands of dollars on something I can't feel? If I drive for an hour and a half we can get to a store that carries OMI, Englander, and so on - they don't carry anything that can't be flipped or gotten into for adjustment and I like that. They are going to want body parts for payment and I will happily leave them whichever aching joint or burning muscle they would like in exchange for a good nights' sleep. I don't care who makes it - I don't care if it has a twenty five year warranty - I don't care if it has a pretty cover - and I truly don't care if it's six, seven, or fifteen inches thick. I will however care very much if I wke up one night and have a migraine from rubber fumes, the samples have a slight odor that I don't find unpleasant at all - and I'm not aiming for Dunlop so the smell of Talalay is less noticeable. I'm not looking forward to having to spend hours in a store filled with chemically treated beds in order to find my natural one, have aspirin will travel. I do not want vinyl coated springs, I don't want poly fill or poly foam. We turned this mattress/hammock we have and that reduced the rocks that were translating - but a hammock is a hammock and not reccomended for any time longer than it takes to drink a mai tai. Unfortunately it's not wise to start and end every single day of your life with a mai tai in hand. Thank you all |