Mattress Forum

I haven't owned a Simmons.  My parents have one in their guest room.  It's firm or ultra firm with little foam, and I know that it softened up lots from when it was new.   My parents Simmons also sags in the middle now, even with extra supports under it.

I've read lots of complaints that the Simmons goes too soft within 2-3 months.   Maybe yours still hasn't broken in.  I've read lots of complaints that the Simmons goes "too soft" within 2-3 months, compared to how it was new.

I have an Imperial Bedding Orthopedic Ultra Firm model #49 Bonnell innerspring mattress and spring foundation set.  Now, that set is rock hard firm in full size, and it also has little padding.  It's more firm than the currnet Simmons 800 or 850 coil (queen) ultra firm, even.   I put a 2" foam topper on that Imperial, and that relieves all pressure points for me, even if I sleep on my side.  My topper is old, like boufght 5-6b yearsago and never used, but it looks like what's called mamory foam now.

Personally, I plan to steer clear of all single sided mattresses and I will buy a traditional two sided by either Imperial (their #640)  or Original Mattress Factory  (Ortho Ultra Firm) and then stick my topper on it.

Sorry, I know that wasn't much help.

I would not call any memory foam cool, but some do breathe better than others.  The downside, in my opinion, is that you tend to get less support with more breathability.  So, I would try to limit to 1" on the cooler ones (mem-cool on overstock for example)  .  2" might work in the regular types of memory foam (Serta on overstock is pretty popular and cheap, but I have never tried).  Sensus is higher density (5lb), less breathable, and firmer and more supportive. 

I would not buy less than 4 lb. density. 

Latex is about equivaltent to or better than the cooler memory foams in terms of breathability, with better suppport options.  It is not as plush and body conforming (again my opinion) as a good memory foam, so that is a minor downside.  More expensive as well.  The softest is 14ILD from sleeplikeabear.  Beyond that you can get 19, 24.   I would not suggest firmer than that for most people.

Since you did not like the heat of the 3", but seemed comfortable, then soft latex might be the best option.

It also make a considerable difference if you use some wool (topper or mattress pad) over the foam.  That will be true with latex as well as memory foam.  All foams heat up, so you need something to absorb the body humidity.  That can make it feel a bit firmer though.   

What  did you put over the 3" memory foam?  What is your height and weight?

If you can return the whole thing, I would consider going with an all latex mattress.  It would probably last longer and could be customized to the right firmness.

Yes, I would definitely try again with the mattress pad over.  Any breathable barrier will help.  Ideally it will be able to absorb moisture as well (wool good, cotton okay, polyester not as good).   I use a wool topper + a wool filled mattress pad.  You may want to stick with your topper and add breathable layers on top for heat issues. 

Do you know any details about the topper.  Brand?  Density?

I doubt 1" will solve your problem, but if you go with too soft you may have a problem with not getting enough support in your hip  area.  That happened to me with even better (5lb Aerus) 2.5" foam than the mem-cool.  I don't know if I would say that the mem-cool will be significantly cooler (all foams heat up to a certain extent), but I have noticed a difference between that and the Sensus memory foam.  Unfortunately the more breathable memory foams dont' support as well (in my experience).  I suspect that you have one that is better for support but not breathable.

You are light enough that you might be able to get away with 2".  Ideally you could get 1" and fold it in half to see if 2" would work.  On a full size that can be a bit difficult to do. Then you could buy another inch. 

I think you should be considering atleast 1" of latex, and possibly 2-3"   There is nothing wrong witt layering 1" pieces as far as I can tell.  They don't slide around vs. each other.  Maybe a slight differnence in feel from one thicker piece.

So, maybe you would end up with something like 1" of mem-cool over 2" of latex (14-24 ILD depending on how firm you like).

The only way to solve is trial and error.  Make the best judgements possible, but no one really knows what works for them until they try it.  Try to buy returnable stuff if possible.

So, you have more back pain without the memory foam than with it?   Does it feel too firm with the memory foam or do you feel like your hips are sinking in too much?   You may want to try with just the memory foam and the mattress pad (no eggcrate) to see what that is like.  I would not go with more than 3" of the memory foam you have.  I am probably going to return the 2.5" of memory foam I have because it is too soft for my weight.  In part if may be due to the way the foam is made.  I am pretty sure I would not have a problem with 2.5" of Tempur-pedic foam.

So, I don't think I would buy anymore memory foam unless you plan to ditch the 3" you have.  I would buy latex before any more memory foam.

Sleeplikeabear has by far the best selection I have found for talalalay.  Almost every firmness and thickness made by Latex International (best quality in talalay).  They do cost a bit more, but they they also have a 30 return policy (you will lose some on shipping and handling).  Foambymail is not the same quality, and their soft if probably firmer than the 20 ILD they indicate.  Maybe because it is really dunlop latex. 

Rockymountain mattress has some good prices on dunlop toppers.  The softest of the 2 they sell might work.  I don't think they take returns on toppers.  Absolute comfort looks similiar to rockymountain, but more expensive.  Don't know their return policy.  Overstock has varying quality of their latex.  I think you won't know what your are getting until it arrives.

So, SLAB is the best if you want to know what you are getting in a talalay.  Rockymountain probably the best price for a quality dunlop.  Overstock is okay if you want cheap and on the firmer side (based on reviews it might be like a 25ILD).  That might be okay as something to add some softeness and support under your 3" of memory foam.  It probably would be too firm to replace the memory foam, based on what it seems like you are looking for.

Softer coils might help.  13 to 15 might be a big jump though.  Then there is some risk of it softening over time.  I would prefer you having softer coils than buying a plush version that just adds a bunch of cheap foam.  That definitely will not work over the long term.  The risk is that if it ends up too soft there is almost not way to fix it.  You might be able to add a firmer latex topper, but even that will sag into a too soft area.

So, you really have to decide which coils you are going to go with and then whether or not you think you want to keep using the 3" of memory foam.  That will then help decide where to go from here.

Have you tried the one with softer coils?  Does it seem to soft or too firm as a starting point?  Do you know how much foam is above the coils?
 

I have tried the bed with softer coils, and it's definitely more comfortable - my hips sink in nicely.  On the other hand it will cost me about $350 to exchange, which is not much less than 2" latex and 1" mem-cool, so if the latex/mem-cool is as comfortable, I think that would be better because the lower-guage wire is more likely to sag, plus the degree of sinkage with the soft coils that feels good in the store could prove to be too much over the course of an entire night. 

I still have another week to decide on the mattress exchange, so I think my working plan will be to order the mem-cool and latex and try that first.  While waiting for that to arrive, I'll continue to use the 3" MF topper.  I'll try it without the egg crate tonight.  The egg crate doesn't provide much cushioning, I was using it more to provide extra heat insulation.

Oh and one other question: the polyester fill pad I have is returnable, so I'm thinking of a wool pad.  But from your other posts, it doesn't seem like you found the wool to make much difference.  If I do get a wool pad, it seems like this is the way to go in terms of cost and availability: http://www.costco.com/Browse/Productgroup.aspx?Prodid=11535460&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|90608|28683|492&N=4047337&Mo=28&pos=2&No=16&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=492&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&ec=BC-EC14142-Cat28683&topnav=

I think wool can make a difference.  I would prefer wool instead of polyester fill for sure.  The Costco one is a good value.  My only concern is whether the waterproof membrane makes it sleep any hotter.  I don't think much of a difference.  At least you can return to Costco if you don't like it.

I think the mem-cool + latex should breath better than what you have.  That plus some wool on top might make it so that it does not get too hot.  I think you will still find it warm (which is good), but hopefully not hot.

What firmness latex are you thinking?  I would think either 14 or 19ILD since you seem to like it pretty soft.  14 would be the closest to memory foam, if that is what you are looking for.  19 has a bit more firmness and push back.  You could always do 1" of each to have more flexibility.

Sometimes it is good to have something intermediate firmness between a firm surface and a soft topper.  So, that would favor the 19, but you might need 1 more inch of something else eventually to make it soft enough.  Even 1" of 24 on the bottom might be good, but of course it is all expensive.

I doubt you will get the latex within a week.  You would have to call and check on availability.

What would be nice would be to try the wool mattress pad with the 3" memory foam and see if that is too hot.  If not too hot and still too firm, maybe you could add just 1" of latex to see if that solves the problem.

Which of the Sleepy's mattresses do you have?  Is there one with 14 gauge similiar to yours?
 

I have this mattress.  It looks like the wire guage is actually 14 and 3/4, not 13 as I thought, which makes me think that going plusher would be a bad idea.  Also I'm thinking that given the thinner wire, it may be more likely to break in a bit. 

Also, I've now slept for three nights with the 3" MF topper under the egg crate and the polyester 16 oz fill mattress pad, and I'm finding it quite comfortable.  Even with the MF under the other layers, it still gets quite warm, but the temperature is just barely tolerable.  So I'm now thinking that instead of the 1" mem-cool over 2" latex, I may just try 2 or 3" mem cool - this will be about half the price of the latex/mem-cool combo.  Then if that's too hot, maybe I'd get an additional 1" latex to layer on top of the mem-cool, not so much for added comfort but more to have a layer between the hot MF and my body.  Does that seem like a reasonable plan?  And do you think the latex would be an effective temperature buffer?  And finally, do you have thoughts about 2" versus 3" of mem-cool? 

Also, I'm wondering if the natura cover would provide as much temperature control as my current polyester pad.  I understand that wool is better than polyester, but on the other hand the natura has less than half the fill density (7 vs 16 oz). 

Thanks again for all your input, and hope you're having a great weekend!

I think you are probably better trying things over your memory foam (which you seem to like) than replacing it.  Although, I guess you said you could still return it?

I think you need a wool layer on top, maybe 2.  Like the wool topper or the wool filled mattress pad.

Latex will be more supportive and possibly cooler than the mem-cool, so I don't really like the idea of going with too much mem-cool.  2" at most, and for some people they would find that not supportive enough.  1" is probably better with some latex.  Most likely the mem-cool will not be as supportive as the memory foam you currently have.

As I have said all foams heat up, so you need something breathable over them.