Need pointed in the right direction

[Phoenix]

Just for reference sake in terms of pricing:
http://www.beloitmattress.com/mattress1.html
http://www.mattresswarehousenashville.com/tennessee/PN_510_4_nashville_two_sided_mattress.html
In other words you are at the lower end of the pricing scale. Not sure I would go there, although it would certainly be in your budget.
Phoenix

 

[budgy]

I dunno man....I just watched this video....and I think I am now dumber having listened to it.
http://www.mattresswarehousenashvil...0_1_nashville_visco_memory_foam_mattress.html

 

[Phoenix]

That was just too funny.
I'm sorta embarassed to admit that I was the one who posted the link (laughing).
I did a search on "corsicana 2 sided" to get a reference price for the previous post and he was the first link that came up.
Think I'm gonna do a search on "mattress salesman of the year" and see what else I can learn.
Phoenix

 

[sandman]

That guy is classic! He made so many errors, that it was hard to keep track off. My favorite is when he says that latex is made by a company called Talalay.
If he is going to show the mattress, why doesn't he at least take the plastic off!

 

[budgy]

I actually had a good laugh watching all his videos...so did my co-workers

 

[markbnh1]

This guy must of been a used car salesman before he got into the mattress business. I had a good laugh watching him also. I'd NEVER buy anything from a guy like that.

 

[DianeK]

Who needs the Comedy Network when you have guys like this?!

 

[perryw]

I stopped by Holder tonight and was pretty impressed. The guy there said he had been in the bedding business for 20 years.
They had a mattress with a latex pillow top that was out of my price. And a pure latex mattress that was also spendy, but felt too soft anyways. The guy said he doesn't really sell too many of them. The ones he does are to people that have bought them in the past (that confused me too) and to people w/ specific health problems.
The mattress I liked the best was a soft top firm. He said it has a "posture section" or something like that. The center section of springs are a little thicker (12.75ga) than the head and foot (13ga). Continuous spring he said. And a real box spring (6ga), not a foundation (he seemed surprised that I asked about that; said I had been doing my homework ). Priced about $900 for the set, plus tax with delivery and haul away included.
The same bed with a pillow top was about $120 more. I figure that I could get a latex topper from Sam's for not too much more than that and end up with a better overall product. He mentioned that in his experience people will err on the side of too firm.. I wasn't sure if he thought that was bad or good, but it's good, right? Pretty much everything they sold was double sided.
I'll go check the Bowles stuff, but I think this one is winning out. Glad you all told me to look for small shops!

 

[Phoenix]

It's always a good feeling when you have found something you would be happy with and any other looking is "bonus" ... not necessity.
I'm assuming that the top was latex over springs?
I had a feeling they would have good value. Did you happen to ask the guy if he had mailed me my information?
I would also err on the side of firm for the very reasons you gave.
Phoenix

 

[perryw]

No, it's foam over the springs. I didn't get the exact specs though. There was one with a few inches of latex over the springs, and aside from the cost, I thought it was too soft for me.
Did you call the Anderson store? He gave me a small brochure that he said is several years old. It's more of a "how to pick a good mattress" type thing than a "this is our product" thing. He didn't really have anything that described their product line. He did said that he wants to update the brochure, so maybe you'll get it whenever he gets around to it

 

[Phoenix]

Oops ... if it's foam over the springs then the value I thought was there isn't ..... although this would depend to some degree on what the foam was. There are better and worse polyfoams with High Resiliency foams being the best. Some of the HR foams are designed to mimic the feel and durability of latex but the jury is still out how close they come on either count. While their latex may have been too soft, there are many different firmnesses of latex which would be similar to whatever was on this mattress. The springs sound very strong though.
You could get a Talalay latex over spring mattress or a Talalay latex over HR foam mattress or even a Dunlop all latex mattress or maybe even a Talalay over Dunlop latex mattress for about the same price or at least not much more.
That doesn't mean that all latex is the way to go for you ... just that I would tend to avoid polyfoam in the top of a mattress. It would be worth taking a little longer in the search (IMO) than getting something that may not last as long or keep its qualities for as long as you may like. I would at least ask them specifically what the foam was in the top. The other good part of course is that it included a boxspring which an all latex or all foam mattress wouldn't need but an innerspring mattress does (at least to make it perform at optimal levels).
The number I phoned was the Anderson store 765-642-1256 and he was sending me specific information on a 2 sided all latex mattress with a 6" core and 1.5" - 2" latex quilting on both sides. I have no idea of the price as he said he would include all that in the mail. Typically a mattress like this could be either firm or soft or anything in between depending on the customer's choice.
Phoenix

 

[Phoenix]

More about Indiana Mattress ... I looked on their website and none of American Pedic models have any latex (according to the descriptions there anyway).

The general information about the Classic collection says it uses latex but none of the individual desctiptions mentions any.
The Europa collection has models with differing degrees of latex
The Miralux collection says it has latex but there are no individual models listed
The Origins collection has Latex cores and at least some latex above that.
The Charleston in their Hospitality collection had of all things 2 layers of QUILTING FOAM close to the springs. I have no idea why they did this. Other layers of Poly as well.

I looked through my database and found the specs for all of them and discovered that every one of them that has Latex also has at least 2" and usually 3" or more of Polyfoam in them in either the comfort layers or in the quilting. Enough Polyfoam that I would rule all of them out ... the entire IBC line except for the Venus.
Interestingly enough, The Venus model has an inch of 8 lb Venus memory foam in it above 3" of 5 lb (probably Sensus) memory foam and the smooth top is the only one in the line that doesn't have any poly above it. I'm mentioning this not because you would be interested but for reference sake because there might be some curiousity about beds with a higher density of memory foam in them. It's also interesting that their Talalay latex uses "telescoping" pins which alters the way that latex compresses and makes the Talalay layer firmer on one side than the other. Too bad that such interesting materials are "spoiled" (again IMO) with such liberal use of Polyfoam.
If IBC is the only line they carry, I would rule them out unless you are ok with a lot of polyfoam in a mattress.
Phoenix

 

[Phoenix]

BTW ... Beloit mattress company http://www.beloitmattress.com/location.html is in Beloit WI which is close to Rockford WI near the Illinois border. If you work near Fisher, then it is a little more than 5 hours away. That's not much further than the 3.5 hours I drove to lay on the sawgrass mattress at Parklane mattress. It was well worth it for me to see what they had there (latex and otherwise) and I suspect that if you feel like driving that far, that they have quite a selection of different mattresses at Beloit as well. It may be worth calling them and talking to them about what they have and what you are looking for and then deciding if it is worth the drive.
Phoenix

 

[perryw]

Thanks for the additional info. I wouldn't be willing to go driving for hours to try a mattress. I think I can find something suitable locally or the DIY route.
I went to Walls Mattress, which only sells the Bowles line. I actually bought my current mattress from a different Walls location (the guy said his parents own the other shop, and he probably delivered my current mattress 9+ years ago!), and now that I look, it's actually a Bowles. I hadn't looked until just now, didn't want to be persuaded in my shopping. Too bad I don't still have the receipt or I'd make a warranty claim against the collapsed pillow top
The three I liked were:
Chantilly - "11" plush top mattress, Visco lumbar support with 522 lura-flex coil unit and high density foam encasement rails." http://www.bowlesmattress.com/html/millionaire.htm
Kodiak - "11" Plush top mattress, 3/4" Visco elastic foam with dupont cool max fabric and 704 zoned pocketed coil unit. High density foam encasement rails." http://www.bowlesmattress.com/html/elite.htm
Spectra - "12" plush top mattress, all foam construction with 1" of premium talalay latex." It had a 5 7/8" base layer of firm foam, then a 2" layer of super soft, and then 1" of Later Internationl Talatech.
None of the three are more than $900 w/ delivery and haul away, IIRC. None were double sided - he said he doesn't feel the double sided mattresses are necessarily better. I tried a couple that were and I didn't like them. They use foundations, not box springs. He offered a 30 day comfort guarantee if I buy a mattress cover from him and use it.
I think I liked the feel of the Spectra the best, the foam one with latex on top. The Kodiak and Chantilly pretty much had the same soft top, just different coils - the pocket coil felt a little better. I couldn't much tell the difference between them.
There was the Sapphire http://www.bowlesmattress.com/html/backmaster.htm which felt too firm, but I think it had less foam. It may be fine with my own latex topper? Its coil unit was different style than the Chantilly and Kodiak.
It looks like I have to go up to a higher end ($$$) line to get latex over coils or all latex. We didn't look at those.

 

[perryw]

Oh, and he gave me a pillow to carry around and try the different mattresses with, instead of the decorative "pillow" things. It was a latex pillow and I fell in love with it. Bought one on the spot! Latex Green Ergo Soft.. Most I've ever spent on a pillow at $59, but, wow.. felt great!

 

[Phoenix]

"It looks like I have to go up to a higher end ($$$) line to get latex over coils or all latex. We didn't look at those."
I wouldn't pay $900 for any of the choices you mentioned. I think the least of them had close to 3" of polyfoam in it (most of it supersoft), and any of the better layers (visco and/or latex) were very thin and surrounded by "lesser stuff". You are a big guy and while your weight is probably evenly spread out, I can't help but think that you would be heading for problems with any of them.
I would tend to use your experience at Bowles as something that you are gaining experience in what you like rather than approaching it as trying to decide what to buy from them. I would certainly try the higher end mattresses to get a sense of the better mattress constructions that fit you. This may be the most important thing you do there. Armed with this, you will be in a much better position to decide on a direction. I would also pay particular attention to your spinal alignment as it seems you are being drawn to some pretty soft configurations.
An inch or so of some of the newer HR super soft poly in the quilting may not be so bad as they are pretty resilient and durable (if they are the best foams) but if you add that to more layers of soft or even firmer but lower quality poly foam in the comfort layers, you may be heading for some "issues". If you do decide to go with a mattress with more than 1" of poly foam in it, I personally would make darn sure I knew the details of exactly what they were (density, ild, type etc) ... and I do mean specifically rather than "salesman mattress talk" generally.
Phoenix

 

[Phoenix]

Since these are both mentioned here http://www.furnituretoday.com/blog/Bedding_Today/22556-Consumer_Reports_ratings_shake_things_up.php
And are rated quite highly, it is worth including them as a reference point to help you compare what you are looking at to other similar (or better) mattresses. They both have specs and prices on their site so it will be easier to compare apples to apples.
http://www.originalmattress.com/product-and-pricing
http://www.furniturerow.com/DenverMattressCo/
In my opinion they both have models with great value. Unfortunately the "original mattress company" only ships in the East. That and the fact that they had already been mentioned a fair bit before was the only reason I didn't include them on my previous list.
Phoenix

 

[perryw]

Well, that's certainly discouraging!
I've stayed away from all the pillowtops and eurotops, am I really looking at things that are that soft? There was a mattress there with 3" of latex on the top, a step up from the Spectra, and it felt too soft to me.
I was a little off on the specs of the Spectra - http://www.bowlesmattress.com/html/latex-foam.html and it was the Mystique next to it. I now understand that neither are very desirable.. at least I think I do.
What I "need" to be looking for is something with just springs and latex? It shouldn't mention any other kind of foam, right? I guess I've gotten a little lost again.

The mention of OMF and Denver came while I was typing.. Which at OMF is "acceptable"? They have a store that is "only" 2.5 hours away..

 

[Phoenix]

Given the value that is out there ... If I was going to look at a mattress with more than 1" of polyfoam, I would make sure that it was the type of foam that wouldn't create problems down the road AND I would expect to pay far less than most people seem to be paying for these types of mattress. I don't mean to discourage you ... quite the opposite as a matter of fact ... but .....................
If I was going to go in the polyfoam direction, I would get very specific about what they were (you can see some examples in the last 2 links I posted) and be reasonably certain they would do what I wanted them to do in terms of support, comfort, and durability. I would not buy something where I had any doubts. It is much easier to know what you are buying when you are looking at materials that have proven themselves and where their qualities are easier to predict. Springs, latex foam, memory foam, and traditional stuffing materials (horsehair, cotton, wool, feathers etc) fall into this category. HR foam to a lesser degree falls into this category as well but it is much more difficult to know what kind of foam is in your mattress as they will mostly not give you the specific manufacturer so you can do some research into it's quality and characteristics. Most of the poly foams are re-branded with "latest and greatest most wonderful absolute heaven" names to prevent consumers from doing exactly this. Most of them as well have not proven themselves (at least in a positive way) in the real world over time.
Phoenix

 

[Phoenix]

If you have an OMF near you, then I would say your problem is solved. They would almost certainly have something that would suit you and you can be reasonably certain that you would be getting good value no matter what you bought. The only real issue would be getting a bed that fit your needs and that should be far less difficult given what you have read here. I would get the highest quality you can comfortably afford. I believe that there is good value in their entire line ... even though I wouldn't buy some of them for reasons that you already know.
Even their top of the line 2 sided latex supreme in a queen is only $1339.
You would either have the choice of buying something there (assuming they really do have something that "fits" you) or you could take careful notes of the "best" matress they have for your purposes and then duplicate it from another supplier. You may save a bit of money but you would be buying something that had a little more uncertainty and risk attached to it.
I would call them first and have a good long conversation with them and narrow your choices down to a few before you go ... but I would certainly go.
Phoenix