retired2816
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Has anyone purchased from Plushbeds? Can't seem to find much information on them.
Thanks!
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Plush Beds
- Thread starter retired2816
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If you are talking about their latex mattress ...
You can find that exact same mattress in several places (see the links that I posted in another thread) for hundreds less.
You can also find the equivalent or better (not the exact same) for hundreds less.
Of course "$1000 in free gifts" makes it all worth it (laughing). If I could sell the gifts for $1000 I would buy it.
Phoenix
You can find that exact same mattress in several places (see the links that I posted in another thread) for hundreds less.
You can also find the equivalent or better (not the exact same) for hundreds less.
Of course "$1000 in free gifts" makes it all worth it (laughing). If I could sell the gifts for $1000 I would buy it.
Phoenix
If you are talking about their memory foam ... I see a few warning signs.
Some misinformation or spin on the site
Their mattress comparison chart doesn't agree in some cases with the individual descriptions
There is no information about how thick the layers are
The 8" has 2.5 lb memory foam ... I don't consider that suitable for any mattress
The 9" claims in the individual description to have 8lb memory foam in it (comparison chart says 5.34). While there are a few 8lb memory foams (from Foamex and probably others). This is likely absolute BS unless the foam comes from China.
They are using "airflow" systems which usually indicates a "hot" memory foam or another attempt to "link" themselves to Tempur. Means it's less likely that the foam is breathable.
Their "typical" memory foam is 5.34 lb which is a marketing slant trying to emulate Tempur. If they were getting their foam from Carpenter or Foamex or some of the other North American manufacturers and they really wanted people to know that, they would have Foamex or Carpenter densities or at least they wouldn't re-brand their foam and be upfront about where it came from. I wonder how forthcoming they would be if you called them and ask them where their foam came from.
They sell RV mattresses. While this is not a bad thing in and of itself, there is a whole "ring" of sellers online who specialize in selling so called RV mattresses in regular in home sizes in an effort to get around the fire code. Most of them have a tuck under mattress cover instead of a zippered enclosure. They all come from the same supplier which specializes in drop shipping for "online entrepreneurs" with no money and in many cases no ethics. They keep changing their name(s). Most of these are memory foam and Plush are selling latex RV mattresses so I doubt they are part of this "ring" but I would be wary.
Enough to make you cautious and make a phone call to get some specific and pointed and believable answers before you buy anything from them?
Phoenix
Some misinformation or spin on the site
Their mattress comparison chart doesn't agree in some cases with the individual descriptions
There is no information about how thick the layers are
The 8" has 2.5 lb memory foam ... I don't consider that suitable for any mattress
The 9" claims in the individual description to have 8lb memory foam in it (comparison chart says 5.34). While there are a few 8lb memory foams (from Foamex and probably others). This is likely absolute BS unless the foam comes from China.
They are using "airflow" systems which usually indicates a "hot" memory foam or another attempt to "link" themselves to Tempur. Means it's less likely that the foam is breathable.
Their "typical" memory foam is 5.34 lb which is a marketing slant trying to emulate Tempur. If they were getting their foam from Carpenter or Foamex or some of the other North American manufacturers and they really wanted people to know that, they would have Foamex or Carpenter densities or at least they wouldn't re-brand their foam and be upfront about where it came from. I wonder how forthcoming they would be if you called them and ask them where their foam came from.
They sell RV mattresses. While this is not a bad thing in and of itself, there is a whole "ring" of sellers online who specialize in selling so called RV mattresses in regular in home sizes in an effort to get around the fire code. Most of them have a tuck under mattress cover instead of a zippered enclosure. They all come from the same supplier which specializes in drop shipping for "online entrepreneurs" with no money and in many cases no ethics. They keep changing their name(s). Most of these are memory foam and Plush are selling latex RV mattresses so I doubt they are part of this "ring" but I would be wary.
Enough to make you cautious and make a phone call to get some specific and pointed and believable answers before you buy anything from them?
Phoenix
retired2816
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Phoenix,
Thanks for the input. We are looking at latex mattress. From our research we would like to have all natural latex with two or three layers. Would like to have ILD at the core of 35 and 2nd layer 22. Have tried the latex mattress and have found them comfortable. Just trying to put together the right specs for us. My wife is not a big fan of memory foam. We have the usual back and shoulder problems.
sy
Thanks for the input. We are looking at latex mattress. From our research we would like to have all natural latex with two or three layers. Would like to have ILD at the core of 35 and 2nd layer 22. Have tried the latex mattress and have found them comfortable. Just trying to put together the right specs for us. My wife is not a big fan of memory foam. We have the usual back and shoulder problems.
sy
Just a word of caution ... it the topper layer is only 2" and the differential is that great, it may lead to some pressure issues for some people (If you go through the 2" and into the more dense layer underneath). For other people it would be fine. If you have access to a place where you can lay down on a mattress with those specs (or any specs you plan to buy) I would certainly do so first ... either that or if you are sure about the density of the core then purchase the layers from a place where you can do a comfort exchange that also has a "more reasonable" price and/or is better known to either you or the people on this forum. There are lots.
Phoenix
Phoenix
retired2816
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Phoenix,
Thanks for the information. We will seek out various mattress types of ILD combinations and try them. Unfortunately there is nothing in our immediate area that carries what we are looking for. So we will have to search out stores. Verlo has has latex bed that is 5 inch 35 ild and 3 inch 24 ild and that felt just a little too firm. Their other mattress was a 5" latex blend on the core with 35 ild and 2 -2" in layers of Talalay ild 19 which seemed to be too soft. So I'm thinking we need something inbetween.
sy
Thanks for the information. We will seek out various mattress types of ILD combinations and try them. Unfortunately there is nothing in our immediate area that carries what we are looking for. So we will have to search out stores. Verlo has has latex bed that is 5 inch 35 ild and 3 inch 24 ild and that felt just a little too firm. Their other mattress was a 5" latex blend on the core with 35 ild and 2 -2" in layers of Talalay ild 19 which seemed to be too soft. So I'm thinking we need something inbetween.
sy
Sounds like you're getting pretty close. The 2-2" layers would be a little softer than 4" of the same ild but even 4" of 19 ild would be pretty soft.
Assuming that you lay on the two mattresses enough (at least 15 minutes each without interruption in your "normal sleep positions" as if you were going to sleep) to tell how close they were in terms of both comfort and support, I'm guessing that 3" in the 22 range over a core in the 28-32 range would be getting even closer. You'd want to know whether the cores were Dunlop or Talalay as well.
Phoenix
Assuming that you lay on the two mattresses enough (at least 15 minutes each without interruption in your "normal sleep positions" as if you were going to sleep) to tell how close they were in terms of both comfort and support, I'm guessing that 3" in the 22 range over a core in the 28-32 range would be getting even closer. You'd want to know whether the cores were Dunlop or Talalay as well.
Phoenix
retired2816
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Phoenix,
Dunlop vs. talalay. Are these ratings accurate??
Soft Dunlop: 22-30
Medium Dunlop: 31-39
Firm Dunlop: 40 and above
Soft Talalay: N2 Soft 20-24
Medium Talalay: N4 Medium 30-34
Firm Talalay: N5 Firm 35-40+
We are considering going with a dunlop core and the top talalay.
sy
Dunlop vs. talalay. Are these ratings accurate??
Soft Dunlop: 22-30
Medium Dunlop: 31-39
Firm Dunlop: 40 and above
Soft Talalay: N2 Soft 20-24
Medium Talalay: N4 Medium 30-34
Firm Talalay: N5 Firm 35-40+
We are considering going with a dunlop core and the top talalay.
sy
Softness is so subjective that one person's firm is another person's soft. Depends a lot on a person's weight and makeup and sensitivity what feels soft or firm. In very general terms, the heavier a person is the more they will feel a certain ild as softer.
Having said that, The Dunlop will probably feel a little firmer than the ratings indicate compared to Talalay. I personally would tend to move them up in the scale a little. Talalay has a little more "give" to it.
Dunlop under one layer of Talalay will also make the overall mattress feel a little firmer based on my real world testing but it was not a huge difference.
Phoenix
Having said that, The Dunlop will probably feel a little firmer than the ratings indicate compared to Talalay. I personally would tend to move them up in the scale a little. Talalay has a little more "give" to it.
Dunlop under one layer of Talalay will also make the overall mattress feel a little firmer based on my real world testing but it was not a huge difference.
Phoenix
Verlo has a harmony line and one of them is 9" of latex (virtue) ... and another one has 6" of latex on top of 3" of acella-flex (triumph). They look very similar to some of the ecosleep models as well including the picture of the bed they are on http://www.ecosleepmattress.com/latex.html which in turn look very similar to the Gold Bond Ecotouch Latex http://www.goldbondmattress.com/specialty/index.php?category_id=4663. They are similar enough that they seem to be basically the same line. I know that the ecosleep and goldbond use 2x2" of latex on top of 5" and that the 2" layers are progressive. Was the verlo just 4" of the same ild?
Just curious as well, while the goldbond is more expensive, I called the ecosleep people when I was doing my research and while they normally don't sell direct to the public, they did put me in touch with 2 dealers who would ship me a mattress at a "special price". Actually what would have happened is that ecosleep would have drop shipped an order I placed with their dealer. The best price of the 2 dealers I talked to was $1439 (including shipping). What did they quote you at Verlo?
Was it the triumph you tried?
Phoenix
Added: The price I quoted above was one of the dealers and in looking at my notes it wasn't the best price of the two. The other one quoted $1350 including shipping. The mattress was (from top to bottom) 2" 19, 2" 24, and 5" 36. All Talalay. This was for either the Cassidy or the Sundance (different covers).
Also corrected virtue and triumph which I had mixed up
Just curious as well, while the goldbond is more expensive, I called the ecosleep people when I was doing my research and while they normally don't sell direct to the public, they did put me in touch with 2 dealers who would ship me a mattress at a "special price". Actually what would have happened is that ecosleep would have drop shipped an order I placed with their dealer. The best price of the 2 dealers I talked to was $1439 (including shipping). What did they quote you at Verlo?
Was it the triumph you tried?
Phoenix
Added: The price I quoted above was one of the dealers and in looking at my notes it wasn't the best price of the two. The other one quoted $1350 including shipping. The mattress was (from top to bottom) 2" 19, 2" 24, and 5" 36. All Talalay. This was for either the Cassidy or the Sundance (different covers).
Also corrected virtue and triumph which I had mixed up
retired2816
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Phoenix,
The ones we tried at Verlo were the harmony virtue - 5" Talalay 35 ILD core and 2 - 2 inch talalay ILD 19 price $1668 queen
The other was the harmony - 5" Talalay 35 ILD core and 3" talalay ILD 24 price $1538 queen.
Also the talalay is a blend and I was looking at more organic type products. I realize they are more expensive and I'll have to set a budget but would like to have a sound product.
Appreciate your insight. Looks like fall brings on some pretty good sales. So the search will continue and we need to try out some of the different lines out there.
sy
The ones we tried at Verlo were the harmony virtue - 5" Talalay 35 ILD core and 2 - 2 inch talalay ILD 19 price $1668 queen
The other was the harmony - 5" Talalay 35 ILD core and 3" talalay ILD 24 price $1538 queen.
Also the talalay is a blend and I was looking at more organic type products. I realize they are more expensive and I'll have to set a budget but would like to have a sound product.
Appreciate your insight. Looks like fall brings on some pretty good sales. So the search will continue and we need to try out some of the different lines out there.
sy
retired2816
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Phoenix,
Your thoughts on Habitat Furnishings and OMI. I know OMI is very high price but their product looks excellent.
sy
Your thoughts on Habitat Furnishings and OMI. I know OMI is very high price but their product looks excellent.
sy
You'll notice that Habitat didn't make it into my top 10 (or so) list from a previous post and wouldn't make it into my top 20 either. Great marketing but I'd question the accuracy of some of what they're saying ... and I'd love to be making his profits.
About OMI and "organics" in general.
There is a lot of misinformation here and this misinformation was part of a long conversation I had today and has also been the topic of other long conversations with many others.
In general, people are misusing the term "organic" and confusing it with "natural". People are also putting organic covers on mattresses that have all natural materials like 100% natural Talalay or Dunlop and then calling the mattress organic. This is absolute misinformation.
At the moment (and this may soon change) there is only one type of latex that has been certified as organic latex and it comes from Latex Green. It is dunlop latex. They also make a 100% natural dunlop latex.
Up till now, I and many others believed that the only major difference between the two was that the organic version came from rubber trees that had been segregated for a few years and didn't use any pesticides in the early years of the rubber trees' growth. This (and some other things as well) was part of the process that was required to label it as "certified organic". The consensus was that other than that it was pretty much the same and it certainly felt the same as the 100% natural. Some information I found out today is that it may be a higher quality than their 100% natural latex. It apparently doesn't "flake" when you cut it into layers and this was surprising even to the person who told me (Ken from a previous post). This indicates that there is some difference in how it is made but of course that is an assumption and not yet proven. It may after all be worth the extra cost over the 100% natural version even if you are not an organic purist. I doubt I would use it but there at least seems to be some evidence that there is a qualitative difference in it
Having said that, all the dealers for OMI will tell you that they are the most "organic" company out there and that they for example don't ever mix any of their natural products production with their organic products production and don't even ship them in the same trucks as their organic products ... that you can "eat off their floors" ... etc etc. This may or may not be true ... but I certainly am not as sure as I was a few days ago. One thing that is for sure is that they use Talalay in their mattresses and there is currently no Talalay in the world that is organic. This means that other mattresses that do use organic dunlop latex covered with organic wool and/or cotton or other certified organic materials in their mattresses are certainly more organic than OMI, no matter how clean their production is.
What I also know is that their beds are very comfortable and beautiful and you can read more about my feelings about them in another thread. I also know that they are not the only "mostly organic" option and that I believe that their beds are way overpriced compared to other "mostly organic" options. They are way way overpriced compared to mattresses that are a combination of 100% natural and organic ingredients (which is really what OMI is). If someone can show you the certification for the organic latex in their mattress and they also can show you the certification for the other materials, then they can reasonably call their mattress organic. Technically it is still not an organic mattress since even if every ingredient in it has been certified organic ... including the fire barrier ... it is not completely organic until the mattress itself has been certified as a complete unit. There is currently no mattress that I am aware of in the world that has done this. So an absolute correct description of the current most organic mattress out there (which is not OMI) would be that they are selling a mattress which only contains 100% organic materials. An Oeko-Tex certification (which many have for their latex) is not the same as an organic certification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oeko-tex_standard
In my other thread (where I listed a bunch of links), there are links to sites that have every bit as "organic" a mattress as OMI and they are considerably less expensive. There are also many more that I didn't include that are well worth looking at. It was not meant to be a comprehensive list of every place that had great value. I would not buy an OMI no matter how important "organic" was to me as there are many other options where you will end up with at least as nice a mattress with the same or better level of "organicy" (in the true meaning of the made up word) for much much less.
My feeling about blended Talalay as I mentioned in the other thread is that especially in the lower ild's that it is a slightly superior product to the all natural Talalay. This is true whether the blended latex comes from Radium or from Latex International IMO. The all natural Talalay from LI is a "green driven" product which is very nice and more natural obviously than the blend (whether from Radium or LI) but in terms of it's quality or properties, it is very questionable that it is a "better" product and the testing indicates that it does not have the same ability to resist compression in the lower ild's. If more natural was important to someone, then the 100% natural Talalay latex may be worth the extra cost. Dunlopillo also make a 100% natural Talalay but I don't know of any mattresses in North America that use it in an all Talalay mattress. If someone does then let me know. I did talk to a manufacturer in Canada who was using Dunlopillo but they could only get it in one firmness and were using different poly layers to adjust the firmness of the mattress.
Regardless of the truth of all of this, it is clear to me that all of the reliable Talalay producers are making very good product regardless of the more "minute" differences. The reliable Dunlop producers are also making very good product regardless of the differences here as well. The only producers I would really question are the Chinese ... not because they are definitely bad but because most people just don't know and there is evidence that they could be inferior. There is apparently (at least) one Chinese producer of Talalay latex that used to only produce pillows but is now apparently producing cores. Don't have a lot of information about this. There are also Chinese factories that are now partly owned by American manufacturers (Sleep science and Classic brands are two) that are producing mattresses to American specifications for American manufacturers but I'm guessing that the cores themselves don't come from China. There are also other producers of latex ... including from India ... and this may be an interesting area to watch.
There very well may be more additions to this story over the coming weeks and months.
Phoenix
About OMI and "organics" in general.
There is a lot of misinformation here and this misinformation was part of a long conversation I had today and has also been the topic of other long conversations with many others.
In general, people are misusing the term "organic" and confusing it with "natural". People are also putting organic covers on mattresses that have all natural materials like 100% natural Talalay or Dunlop and then calling the mattress organic. This is absolute misinformation.
At the moment (and this may soon change) there is only one type of latex that has been certified as organic latex and it comes from Latex Green. It is dunlop latex. They also make a 100% natural dunlop latex.
Up till now, I and many others believed that the only major difference between the two was that the organic version came from rubber trees that had been segregated for a few years and didn't use any pesticides in the early years of the rubber trees' growth. This (and some other things as well) was part of the process that was required to label it as "certified organic". The consensus was that other than that it was pretty much the same and it certainly felt the same as the 100% natural. Some information I found out today is that it may be a higher quality than their 100% natural latex. It apparently doesn't "flake" when you cut it into layers and this was surprising even to the person who told me (Ken from a previous post). This indicates that there is some difference in how it is made but of course that is an assumption and not yet proven. It may after all be worth the extra cost over the 100% natural version even if you are not an organic purist. I doubt I would use it but there at least seems to be some evidence that there is a qualitative difference in it
Having said that, all the dealers for OMI will tell you that they are the most "organic" company out there and that they for example don't ever mix any of their natural products production with their organic products production and don't even ship them in the same trucks as their organic products ... that you can "eat off their floors" ... etc etc. This may or may not be true ... but I certainly am not as sure as I was a few days ago. One thing that is for sure is that they use Talalay in their mattresses and there is currently no Talalay in the world that is organic. This means that other mattresses that do use organic dunlop latex covered with organic wool and/or cotton or other certified organic materials in their mattresses are certainly more organic than OMI, no matter how clean their production is.
What I also know is that their beds are very comfortable and beautiful and you can read more about my feelings about them in another thread. I also know that they are not the only "mostly organic" option and that I believe that their beds are way overpriced compared to other "mostly organic" options. They are way way overpriced compared to mattresses that are a combination of 100% natural and organic ingredients (which is really what OMI is). If someone can show you the certification for the organic latex in their mattress and they also can show you the certification for the other materials, then they can reasonably call their mattress organic. Technically it is still not an organic mattress since even if every ingredient in it has been certified organic ... including the fire barrier ... it is not completely organic until the mattress itself has been certified as a complete unit. There is currently no mattress that I am aware of in the world that has done this. So an absolute correct description of the current most organic mattress out there (which is not OMI) would be that they are selling a mattress which only contains 100% organic materials. An Oeko-Tex certification (which many have for their latex) is not the same as an organic certification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oeko-tex_standard
In my other thread (where I listed a bunch of links), there are links to sites that have every bit as "organic" a mattress as OMI and they are considerably less expensive. There are also many more that I didn't include that are well worth looking at. It was not meant to be a comprehensive list of every place that had great value. I would not buy an OMI no matter how important "organic" was to me as there are many other options where you will end up with at least as nice a mattress with the same or better level of "organicy" (in the true meaning of the made up word) for much much less.
My feeling about blended Talalay as I mentioned in the other thread is that especially in the lower ild's that it is a slightly superior product to the all natural Talalay. This is true whether the blended latex comes from Radium or from Latex International IMO. The all natural Talalay from LI is a "green driven" product which is very nice and more natural obviously than the blend (whether from Radium or LI) but in terms of it's quality or properties, it is very questionable that it is a "better" product and the testing indicates that it does not have the same ability to resist compression in the lower ild's. If more natural was important to someone, then the 100% natural Talalay latex may be worth the extra cost. Dunlopillo also make a 100% natural Talalay but I don't know of any mattresses in North America that use it in an all Talalay mattress. If someone does then let me know. I did talk to a manufacturer in Canada who was using Dunlopillo but they could only get it in one firmness and were using different poly layers to adjust the firmness of the mattress.
Regardless of the truth of all of this, it is clear to me that all of the reliable Talalay producers are making very good product regardless of the more "minute" differences. The reliable Dunlop producers are also making very good product regardless of the differences here as well. The only producers I would really question are the Chinese ... not because they are definitely bad but because most people just don't know and there is evidence that they could be inferior. There is apparently (at least) one Chinese producer of Talalay latex that used to only produce pillows but is now apparently producing cores. Don't have a lot of information about this. There are also Chinese factories that are now partly owned by American manufacturers (Sleep science and Classic brands are two) that are producing mattresses to American specifications for American manufacturers but I'm guessing that the cores themselves don't come from China. There are also other producers of latex ... including from India ... and this may be an interesting area to watch.
There very well may be more additions to this story over the coming weeks and months.
Phoenix
retired2816
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Phoenix,
I believe that harmony model (5" & 3 ") will be phased in time due to the new line they just released. The owner said they still have it listed in their inventory. I have been researching your suggestions and I like the tomorrow's world and latex mattress shop. Will continue reading thru the others tomorrow.
sy
I believe that harmony model (5" & 3 ") will be phased in time due to the new line they just released. The owner said they still have it listed in their inventory. I have been researching your suggestions and I like the tomorrow's world and latex mattress shop. Will continue reading thru the others tomorrow.
sy
Just to give a few more examples of natural and organic.
I didn't include these guys in my previous list but you can get an idea of how far some stores will go in their search for something really organic. They actually do third party testing on their materials apparently (not just rely on manufacturer specs and testing).
http://www.purerest.com/Mattresses/100-Organic-9-Pillowtop-Mattress
Queen with 8" of organic Dunlop latex is $2378
http://www.purerest.com/Mattresses/10-Certified-Organic-Rubber-Mattresses
Queen with 9" of organic Dunlop latex is $2548
They also have a mattress which has 9" (3x3) of Dunlop latex which is identical to the 9" organic except the Dunlop is only 100% Natural and it is on "special" for $1399.
The outer stuff (cotton wool etc) is the same they told me.
http://www.purerest.com/Mattresses/10-Budget-Mattress-Comparable-to-Other-Suppliers
and then if you look here:
http://www.mattresses.net/queen-organic-latex-mattress.html
You will find the same 8" of certified organic latex from the same latex manufacturer with a certified organic wool/cotton zippered cover for $1699.
I don't think they have 3rd party testing but the level of organicy (there's that word again) and the ingredients are the same for about $700 less.
They also have here http://www.mattresses.net/100--natural-latex-green-bed---watch-video.html
an all natural version (8") with a basic cotton cover and your choice of the Latex Green 100% natural Dunlop or the Latexco (from Belgium) 100% natural 7 zoned Dunlop which sells for $1049
or here http://www.mattresses.net/queen-adjustable-ultra-plush-latex-sleep-system.html
6" blended Talalay and 2" blended Talalay with a wool (1.5") and cotton cover for $1095
Upgrade to 100% natural Talalay and wool and bamboo cover for $1249
and they will customize the thickness or type of any layers any way you want and alter the zippered cover to fit.
and then if you look here
http://www.sleepez.com/latex-mattress-sale.htm
You will find 6" 100% natural Dunlop and 2" natural Talalay with a basic cotton cover for $995
All examples are for a queen size. Shipping costs vary from site to site so don't forget to factor that in when you are making comparisons (the Pure Rest is the most, Arizona mattress is a lot less and Sleepez is free)
All of these sites have many other options as well and all of these can be customized to differing degrees.
Nothing here is meant to exclude some of the other links I mentioned before or sites I haven't even mentioned that have different levels of "customization" and "organicy" or "naturalness" and depending on what's important to you ... equally great value.
There's lots of choices out there
Phoenix
I didn't include these guys in my previous list but you can get an idea of how far some stores will go in their search for something really organic. They actually do third party testing on their materials apparently (not just rely on manufacturer specs and testing).
http://www.purerest.com/Mattresses/100-Organic-9-Pillowtop-Mattress
Queen with 8" of organic Dunlop latex is $2378
http://www.purerest.com/Mattresses/10-Certified-Organic-Rubber-Mattresses
Queen with 9" of organic Dunlop latex is $2548
They also have a mattress which has 9" (3x3) of Dunlop latex which is identical to the 9" organic except the Dunlop is only 100% Natural and it is on "special" for $1399.
The outer stuff (cotton wool etc) is the same they told me.
http://www.purerest.com/Mattresses/10-Budget-Mattress-Comparable-to-Other-Suppliers
and then if you look here:
http://www.mattresses.net/queen-organic-latex-mattress.html
You will find the same 8" of certified organic latex from the same latex manufacturer with a certified organic wool/cotton zippered cover for $1699.
I don't think they have 3rd party testing but the level of organicy (there's that word again) and the ingredients are the same for about $700 less.
They also have here http://www.mattresses.net/100--natural-latex-green-bed---watch-video.html
an all natural version (8") with a basic cotton cover and your choice of the Latex Green 100% natural Dunlop or the Latexco (from Belgium) 100% natural 7 zoned Dunlop which sells for $1049
or here http://www.mattresses.net/queen-adjustable-ultra-plush-latex-sleep-system.html
6" blended Talalay and 2" blended Talalay with a wool (1.5") and cotton cover for $1095
Upgrade to 100% natural Talalay and wool and bamboo cover for $1249
and they will customize the thickness or type of any layers any way you want and alter the zippered cover to fit.
and then if you look here
http://www.sleepez.com/latex-mattress-sale.htm
You will find 6" 100% natural Dunlop and 2" natural Talalay with a basic cotton cover for $995
All examples are for a queen size. Shipping costs vary from site to site so don't forget to factor that in when you are making comparisons (the Pure Rest is the most, Arizona mattress is a lot less and Sleepez is free)
All of these sites have many other options as well and all of these can be customized to differing degrees.
Nothing here is meant to exclude some of the other links I mentioned before or sites I haven't even mentioned that have different levels of "customization" and "organicy" or "naturalness" and depending on what's important to you ... equally great value.
There's lots of choices out there
Phoenix
retired2816
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Phoenix,
My wife and I will be traveling around testing out the various latex combinations this weekeknd. With you knowlwdge and expereince, how much mark up is there in mattresses? Have you found you can negotiate prices within reason?
Thanks!
sy
My wife and I will be traveling around testing out the various latex combinations this weekeknd. With you knowlwdge and expereince, how much mark up is there in mattresses? Have you found you can negotiate prices within reason?
Thanks!
sy
I read recently that the industry average gross margin was 48%. Mattresses are consistently at or near the highest margin in the furniture category. A mattress outlet owner or salesman that had a customer (or even better yet many customers) that didn't negotiate would be making plans for their next 5 star vacation or luxury car. At the very least never buy a mattress at the same time as you are trying them out in the store. Once you know what you like, go home (no matter how "good" their offer to buy "right now"), do some online research into prices and value, and then go back with a clear idea of how much you are willing to pay for the mattress you want. When and if you go back, bring your evidence with you.
Just to make the point a little more ...... $1600 per SQUARE FOOT. Lets see, If I have a 1500 sq ft showroom and multiply by 1600 that equals $2,400,000. I could pay a lot of wages, lease payments, phone bills, advertising, and other expenses with that and have a very nice return on my little 1500 square foot showroom. And that's based on what they actually sold their mattresses for, not on what they "tried" to sell their mattresses for.
Online sales are of course a bonus as they don't have any "square feet" for that part of their operations.
And these numbers are not for the whole industry as they don't have numbers for every retail outlet in the country ... some of whom are selling for much higher prices than some of the outlets mentioned here.
Just to make a point a little more, like anything else there is a gross margin at every level of the supply chain, from the chemicals and raw materials used to make the mattress, to the foam manufacturers, to the mattress manufacturers, to the major distributors, to the minor distributors, to the retailers etc.
There are also many people on this forum with a lot more experience than I have and it would be well worth listening to any advice they have to offer or negotiating tips they may give you.
Phoenix
High Point — High Point— It's getting to be a broken record, but Gallery Furniture again took the crown in two out of three Top 100 performance categories, duking it out with Select Comfort, which was tops in the third.
The Houston-based Gallery, No. 56 on the Top 100, was the sales-per-square-foot leader, reporting an average of $1,600 — blowing away all comers as well as the $289 median for the 49 companies for which estimates were available.
Gallery's stock turns also were tops (again) among the Top 100, turning an average of 28 times.
In both categories, No. 12 Select Comfort was second again with sales per square foot averaging $1,264 —the only other retailer to top $1,000 — and stock turning an average of 23 times.
The Minneapolis-based airbed maker and retailer was the leader in the gross margin category with a 59.4% average, followed by No. 91 Domain at 52.1%, and No. 3 Pier 1 Imports at 51.6%.
Gallery tied for fourth with No. 72 Norwalk — The Furniture Idea and No. 64 Dial-A-Mattress, all with 50% average margins.
Gallery and Select Comfort were the only companies to appear on the Top 10 of all three performance categories — again — while No. 1 Rooms To Go, No. 64 Dial-A-Mattress and No. 75 Sit'n Sleep made it on two of the three lists.
RTG posted the third-best sales per square foot at $900 and the 10th-best stock turns — averaging 8 times.
Long Island City, N.Y.-based Dial-A-Mattress tied for third with an average gross margin of 50%, and was fourth again with stocks turning an average of 16 times.
Gardena, Calif.-based Sit 'n Sleep, which appeared twice last year and the year before, posted the seventh-best stock turn rate, an average of 11 times, and the ninth-best sales per square foot.
The median inventory turn for the Top 100 was 5.6 times based on 33 estimates, an improvement over the 5.4 median turns for last year's Top 100. With 25 estimates, the median gross margin was 46%, up from 45% for the Top 100 last year.
Despite Gallery's strong sales-per-square-foot performance — bettering its number last year by $230 — the median of $289 in sales per square foot for this year's Top 100 was below the $300 median for last year's group.
Just to make the point a little more ...... $1600 per SQUARE FOOT. Lets see, If I have a 1500 sq ft showroom and multiply by 1600 that equals $2,400,000. I could pay a lot of wages, lease payments, phone bills, advertising, and other expenses with that and have a very nice return on my little 1500 square foot showroom. And that's based on what they actually sold their mattresses for, not on what they "tried" to sell their mattresses for.
Online sales are of course a bonus as they don't have any "square feet" for that part of their operations.
And these numbers are not for the whole industry as they don't have numbers for every retail outlet in the country ... some of whom are selling for much higher prices than some of the outlets mentioned here.
Just to make a point a little more, like anything else there is a gross margin at every level of the supply chain, from the chemicals and raw materials used to make the mattress, to the foam manufacturers, to the mattress manufacturers, to the major distributors, to the minor distributors, to the retailers etc.
There are also many people on this forum with a lot more experience than I have and it would be well worth listening to any advice they have to offer or negotiating tips they may give you.
Phoenix
Gallery, Select Comfort lead in performance
By Clint Engel -- Furniture Today, May 28, 2008
High Point — High Point— It's getting to be a broken record, but Gallery Furniture again took the crown in two out of three Top 100 performance categories, duking it out with Select Comfort, which was tops in the third.
The Houston-based Gallery, No. 56 on the Top 100, was the sales-per-square-foot leader, reporting an average of $1,600 — blowing away all comers as well as the $289 median for the 49 companies for which estimates were available.
Gallery's stock turns also were tops (again) among the Top 100, turning an average of 28 times.
In both categories, No. 12 Select Comfort was second again with sales per square foot averaging $1,264 —the only other retailer to top $1,000 — and stock turning an average of 23 times.
The Minneapolis-based airbed maker and retailer was the leader in the gross margin category with a 59.4% average, followed by No. 91 Domain at 52.1%, and No. 3 Pier 1 Imports at 51.6%.
Gallery tied for fourth with No. 72 Norwalk — The Furniture Idea and No. 64 Dial-A-Mattress, all with 50% average margins.
Gallery and Select Comfort were the only companies to appear on the Top 10 of all three performance categories — again — while No. 1 Rooms To Go, No. 64 Dial-A-Mattress and No. 75 Sit'n Sleep made it on two of the three lists.
RTG posted the third-best sales per square foot at $900 and the 10th-best stock turns — averaging 8 times.
Long Island City, N.Y.-based Dial-A-Mattress tied for third with an average gross margin of 50%, and was fourth again with stocks turning an average of 16 times.
Gardena, Calif.-based Sit 'n Sleep, which appeared twice last year and the year before, posted the seventh-best stock turn rate, an average of 11 times, and the ninth-best sales per square foot.
The median inventory turn for the Top 100 was 5.6 times based on 33 estimates, an improvement over the 5.4 median turns for last year's Top 100. With 25 estimates, the median gross margin was 46%, up from 45% for the Top 100 last year.
Despite Gallery's strong sales-per-square-foot performance — bettering its number last year by $230 — the median of $289 in sales per square foot for this year's Top 100 was below the $300 median for last year's group.
| Top 10 in sales per square foot | ||
|---|---|---|
| For furniture, bedding and accessories | ||
| RANK | COMPANY | AVERAGE SALES PER SQ. FT. |
| 56 | Gallery Furniture | $1,600 |
| 12 | Select Comfort | 1,264 |
| 1 | Rooms To Go | 900 |
| 44 | Room & Board | 647 |
| 83 | Darvin Furniture | 615 |
| 71 | Walter E. Smithe Furniture | 584 |
| 31 | Mathis Brothers | 568 |
| 42 | Harlem Furniture | 535 |
| 75 | Sit 'n Sleep | 500 |
| 68 | Jerome's | 462 |
| Top 10 in average stock turns | ||
|---|---|---|
| For furniture, bedding and accessories | ||
| RANK | COMPANY | AVERAGE STOCK TURNS |
| 56 | Gallery Furniture | 28.0 |
| 12 | Select Comfort | 23.0 |
| 88 | PMD Furniture Direct | 20.2 |
| 64 | Dial-A-Mattress | 16.0 |
| 44 | The RoomStore/The RoomSource | 12.5 |
| 67 | Bernie & Phyl's Furniture | 12.5 |
| 75 | Sit 'n Sleep | 11.0 |
| 48 | Furnitureland South | 10.0 |
| 28 | American Furniture Warehouse | 8.6 |
| 1 | Rooms To Go | 8.0 |
Regarding the term organic and natural latex. No matter how pure the process is, natural rubber foam should never truly be labelled as organic. A company I deal with called Green Sleep has used organic farming methods on their own rubber tree plantation for years, they also process their own natural dunlop rubber and from the test sheets I have seen they are the purest most elastic rubber cores available. They do NOT label their rubber organic, they can just merely say that it is organically grown. There will always be small amounts of zinc oxide and sulfur ash added into the product to turn it into foam...although these are technically natural vulcanizing agents they are not technically organic. Just for the same reason that you would not actually label a spring system organic. Note that this does not mean in any way shape or form that natural rubber or springs are not as pure as say organic wool and cotton, it is simply to say that because a small percentage of the foam is not biological in nature, then it should not be labelled organic. Springs are 'natural' but are made from non biological components.
When a product is certified organic it really means the covers themselves, what you want to look for in an organic mattress with regards to rubber cores is simply 3rd party certification testing for polymer content (ratio of NR to SBR) and VOC, PBDE, heavy metal content. I am actually also a dealer of Natura product, and they have been using latex green natural dunlop cores in their organic mattresses for the past year or 2. The rubber is fantastic quality and has always had 3rd party certification for the natural content, I was told recently that they are seeking organic certification and maybe already have it...however the product has not changed...their natural rubber IS what they are seeking to label as organic rubber.....personally I believe that to be a little bit misleading from the sense that there are a couple different makers of the same quality and purity of natural rubber cores and the companies for good reason do not label the rubber as being organic. Saying it is organically grown is really the proper terminology.
When a product is certified organic it really means the covers themselves, what you want to look for in an organic mattress with regards to rubber cores is simply 3rd party certification testing for polymer content (ratio of NR to SBR) and VOC, PBDE, heavy metal content. I am actually also a dealer of Natura product, and they have been using latex green natural dunlop cores in their organic mattresses for the past year or 2. The rubber is fantastic quality and has always had 3rd party certification for the natural content, I was told recently that they are seeking organic certification and maybe already have it...however the product has not changed...their natural rubber IS what they are seeking to label as organic rubber.....personally I believe that to be a little bit misleading from the sense that there are a couple different makers of the same quality and purity of natural rubber cores and the companies for good reason do not label the rubber as being organic. Saying it is organically grown is really the proper terminology.
Latex green already has an organic certification for their latex cores ... several of the links I posted have them in their mattresses. This is different from their 100% natural product.
Up until recently most people (that I talked to anyway) believed that this was simply a "relabeling" of their 100% natural product (at a higher price of course) using latex that had been segregated from their "main" plantation and certified as not using any pesticides in the early years of the trees growth and all the other things that "certification" requires, however there are some indications that their organic latex is qualitatively different from their 100% natural latex.
NAOMI "organic"
http://www.naomiorganics.com/naomicertifiedvendors.html
Phoenix
PS: Changed one of the links to the Bedroom magazine article instead of a vendors article.
Added later: link to USDA certified latex article was removed as Bedroom magazine is sleep related and accepts advertising which is against the TOS here. It basically said that there was now USDA organic certified latex
Up until recently most people (that I talked to anyway) believed that this was simply a "relabeling" of their 100% natural product (at a higher price of course) using latex that had been segregated from their "main" plantation and certified as not using any pesticides in the early years of the trees growth and all the other things that "certification" requires, however there are some indications that their organic latex is qualitatively different from their 100% natural latex.
NAOMI "organic"
http://www.naomiorganics.com/naomicertifiedvendors.html
Phoenix
PS: Changed one of the links to the Bedroom magazine article instead of a vendors article.
Added later: link to USDA certified latex article was removed as Bedroom magazine is sleep related and accepts advertising which is against the TOS here. It basically said that there was now USDA organic certified latex
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