Mattress Forum

As to pillow tops, I submit that there is virtually no S Company using more than just one very thin layer of latex in their pillow tops. You're going to find cheap polyurethane and visco foams (not even the good stuff) in those mattress "pillow tops".

I stand by my statement that pillow tops are to be avoided because they are made from cheap foam and break down very quickly leading to a lack of support and back pain for many people.

One's best bet is to get a firm mattress and add one's own pillowtop by buying 1, 2 or 3" of latex of ILDs of your liking, 14-24ILD, I'd say. If memory foam is to be used, add it oneself because it will break down quicker than latex and you'll want to replace it when it starts hurting your back. Personally I can only tolerate memory foam for a week or two before it starts to hurt my back and I've tried the heavy, good quality stuff, not the cheap junk most S companies put into their toppers.

Dave, do you work for a mattress company or did you? It's fine if you did, but I'm just curious because you seem to have a pro-S Co. bias. To say that the problem with S Co's is that they are successful is simply nonsense. I could give you about a dozen reasons as to their problems, from misleading customers by using different names at each store, to hiding the truth beneath misnomers and not revealing the actual contents of their mattresseses on those "foot of the bed" signs you see in all the stores. Want me to go on?

I don't mean to be impolite but when you say the problem with S Co's is their success you are way off base in my humble opinion and I have spent a lot of time studying and researching mattresses and worked in the mattress industry for a short time - long enough to learn all the b.s. that goes on!

My personal take is that in order to get a mattress without all the chemicals and cheap filler I have to go to the top tier of Stearns and Foster.  The chemicals have darn near killed me as it is.  Why would I do that? Well I for one would really like to try the bed before purchasing, although in all honesty the odds are 50/50 even then.  I'd prefer to not have to drive around for days on end to find a mattress, but I live outside a major metro area and I have health issues - by the time I've gone so far then I'm too darn tired to do the hours of up and down.   What I have nearby is easy access to the S brands, Costco, and some brands you could not pay me to sleep on because they are toxic.     I'd rather buy from the little guy who sells top notch handmade mattresses made out of things that are natural and not chemical based. I'd rather have my bed delivered and set up. I'd rather have my old bed hauled off (no charity does pick up where I live), but that I can work around.  

Now here I am considering building my own mattress... 

Internet is a wonderful thing, but why wouldn't I be terrified of spending thousands of dollars on something I can't feel?   If I drive for an hour and a half we can get to a store that carries OMI, Englander, and so on - they don't carry anything that can't be flipped or gotten into for adjustment and I like that.  They are going to want body parts for payment and I will happily leave them whichever aching joint or burning muscle they would like in exchange for a good nights' sleep.  I don't care who makes it - I don't care if it has a twenty five year warranty - I don't care if it has a pretty cover - and I truly don't care if it's six, seven, or fifteen inches thick. 

I will however care very much if I wke up one night and have a migraine from rubber fumes, the samples have a slight odor that I don't find  unpleasant at all - and I'm not aiming for Dunlop so the smell of Talalay is less noticeable.   I'm not looking forward to having to spend hours in a store filled with chemically treated beds in order to find my natural one, have aspirin will travel.  

I do not want vinyl coated springs, I don't want poly fill or poly foam.    We turned this mattress/hammock we have and that reduced the rocks that were translating - but a hammock is a hammock and not reccomended for any time longer than it takes to drink a mai tai.    Unfortunately it's not wise to start and end every single day of your life with a mai tai in hand.

Thank you all

Agree, and a quick google will bring up hundreds upon hundreds of angry people all complaining about the same thing: Buying an expensive pillowtop and having it turn into a hammock in short order.

If you don't want to spend a fortune on hand-made mattresses or other specialities, I think Jim Socal has the very best solution: Buy a good quality firm mattress, then soften and customize it with toppers.

Thanks for your clarification.  Any information that keeps us better informed is great!

I think back to all the sleep setups I have slept on, and I just found better luck with the serta "perfect sleeper" with the continuous coil.  Without rehashing all my bedding experiences, suffice it to say that I believe consumers are becoming much more in the know about bedding choices, especially with latex and DIY setups.  It has become much easier for informed guys and gals to get into a good night's sleep without having to go to the furniture store and blindly pick something out, or worse, do a sleep number bed or a tempurpedic experiment only to find they have shelled out thousands of dollars on something they can't tolerate, much less even remove from the house!

I'm 50 years old, and I want to be informed, to know what my choices are.  I have switched out both bedrooms from crappy metal frames to quality platform beds (see www.haikudesigns.com). and gone from there with foam, latex, and decent mattresses in various configurations.

Keep the information flowing!

Jim,

Absolutely! Bonnell coil is the most widely used coil system in the industry and not just by the S Brands, but just about every manufacture. The bonnell coil isnt really looked down upon, it is just a less expensive design and works great for inexpensive mattresses. For an adult it really wouldnt hold up and provide good back support for very long, but in guest rooms or anyone under 100lbs it will work just fine.

You may not like pillow tops personally, but in all actuallity there is no difference in the foam in a pillow top versus the foam in a non-pillow top. If you buy the less expensive models the pillow top and none pillow top will have the cheap foams in them, when you get to the upper end they both use the same higher density foams. You would be very hard pressed to find any mattress from the S-Companies or the majority of any other manufacture that have any latex, besides synthetic latex. And they use any where from 5/8" to 3" in pillow tops and non pillow tops. The only difference between the pillow top and non pillow top is the way the quilting is attatched to the mattress and has nothing to do with the material inside. The material inside is based on the level of mattresses.

Your idea of buying a little firmer mattress and adding toppers is a great idea and I recommend that solution quite frequently. It is also true Latex will outlast any Poly Foams including Visco/Memory Foams. (Personally I dont liek the memory foam feel either, but many people do and that is a personal prefrence with comfort)

Yes I have been in the mattress industry for about 15yrs now. Started out in 1yr in transportation then 4ys manufaturing and have been in sales 10yrs all in the mattress industry. I have experaince with many manufatures anywhere from Small local manufatures all the way up to the S-Brands. I am not really for against the S-Brands over others. There are many commpanies that make beds that are just as well built and will last just as long. Englander is another great manufacture that build beds that will compete with any S-Brand made and are typically more cost effective for the same quality level. I say typically, because I have seen compaines take a lower end Englander and jack the price up and compare it to high end Sealy. When they could have still beat the price of a sealy using a more comparable Englander.

::Chuckles:: I agree there is a tremendous amount of marketing and misleading information in this industry, but it isnt just the S-Brands. The manufactures make different color covers and different model names for each store in a specific region and this increases sales for that manufacture. This is so more stores from one area will buy from the same mattress manufacture and can advertise exclusive products and guarantee the best price on identical products. The company I work for does post the specs of each mattress in detial at the foot of each bed and I will provide a copy for my customers so that they can make sure they are comparing apples to apples. Its not just the manufactures that are misleading thier customers it is the retailers that push out most of the misleading information and not so much the manufacture. The manufacture does its share, but the retailers are the biggest pushers of misleading information.

I still say it is becuase of their success that the S-Brands catch all the flack and it is becuase they are more widely known, becuase most every manufacture twist their advertising words to make their product sound so much better and the retailers carrying their products put their own spin on it as well. It isnt just the S-Brands it is an idustry wide issue.

Some of the biggest marketing gemics out there (I know these are being pushed by the S-Brands too)

Cooler Memory Foam, Gel blended memory foam, Coconut oil, Bamboo fabric, and there are many more

Latex - Many compaines are using 1" or less latex and calling it a latex mattress and most likey it is synthetic latex and has no natural latex in the mattress yet they are calling it a latex mattress.

Slow recovery Latex foam (Used in Serta) Contians 0% Latex.

Titanium Coils in Sealy - truth Titanium Steel Alloy contains roughly .0001% Titanium

I tell all of my customers the truth about whats in each mattress so they are not mislead. I do show each one the specs and contents of each mattress and explain the differences. I do explain the differences and show the samples of each coil system. I even show explain marketing gimmicks and used for each component in the mattress. I truly try to educate all of my customers. I left one company after working there a short time, becuase they didnt like the fact I went into so much detail about the products. I was told that was a very bad idea.

Jim I think you response is well written and I dont take it as offensive. I look at it as we are having an educated discussion and I will try to explain my point of view. The same as you are explaining your point of view. Please dont be offended by any of my response's. They are not meant that way. I am not a great writer, but I do my best to explain the things I know and I will also let you know when things are just my opinion as well.

Thank you,

Dave

I agree. I personally am not a big fan on the Serta side, but there is no arguing Serta has made many good products and have many customer who do like them. ::chuckles:: I Dont like the tempurpedic feel at all myself. I know they are a good product and they will last a long time, but not everyone will like that feel. It is really a personal preference in comfrot from those to innerspring. I am a big fan of the Latex mattress as long as it is 100% Natural latex (which is very rare in mattresses now and you need to do deep research for those)

I do like the platform bed idea and as Jim had suggested it is good idea to go a little firmer and add a soft topper if needed. If I were to Latex I would go all latex and wouldnt mix it with poly foams. The mattress set up will only last as long as the Poly foams. Unless the ploy foam is a topper you can change out and keep the latex :)

This is the information age and I am finding many more customers that are well educated when they come into my store. This makes my job a bit easier as I like to expose marketing gimmicks and go right for the facts.

Please dont take offense to anything I write. I am not an excellent writer and nothing is meant to be offensive.

While I believe Sterns & Foster is makes a great product I will let you know it is Manufactured by Sealy and it is Sealy's luxury line. The foam is the same foam used in the upper end sealy posturepedic and many other manufactures upper end beds and is made with the same chemicals as all other poly foams. Their are different recipes of poly foams, but they all us the same chemicals. Cheap fillers are only used in construction grade poly foams and not in mattresses. In mattresses to go cheap they make much lighter density foams (Basically more air and less actual material)

The other thing is the good ole days of non toxic mattress sets is gone. Almost all mattresses including the healthy all natural mattress use toxic chemicals for fire retardantcy laws. Becuase it isnt cost effective to use non toxic solutions. All mattresses have to meet the new fire retardant laws and regulations and currrently the only cost effective way to do that is with toxic chemicals. Now the regualtion board say that only a small amount of the toxic checmicals can be absorb through the skin and inhaled and it isnt enough to be harmful, but it also states that some of the chemicals long term affects are unknown. 

The U.S. Consumer Products Safety Commission  (CPSC) has concluded the level of exposure safe, whereas the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) disagrees. According to the EPA, the percentage of Antimony present in most FRs is 27.5 times higher than the recommended percentage. http://www.epa.gov/iris/subst/0006.htm

Here is a complete list of chemicals used for Fire retardancy: http://www.peopleforcleanbeds.org/material_safety_data_sheets.htm

I actually didnt know all of these chemicals were being used, but the manufature doesnt have to label the chemicals they use even if they are hazardous. They do have to tell, which ones they use, but you must ask for it. The only one I know off the top of my head is Serta uses Boric Acid. This is actually why most people get sick with a new mattress. It isnt the foams inside it is the quilting.

I'm glad you said almost.

Read here: http://www.flobeds.com/burntest.htm

and here: http://www.flobeds.com/PleinAirWool.htm

"FloBeds was the first mattress company to use wool (and no chemicals) to pass the new Federal Fire Resistance standards. We have wool on all six sides of the mattress."

Megalops,

Yes I said almost, becuase I know someone has done it with out chemicals, but I also know they only ones done without checmical treatments were priced well over $5k for queen sets.

If they are using wool then it is chemically treated and most likely with boric acid.. One of the few materials used in mattress that met the new fedearl regulations test was kevlar and it is very expensive.

Many mattresses who claim to be "Organic" say they use wool as the flame barrier. While wool would pass the old cigarette test for mattresses, it will not pass the new open flame test. These mattresses either use chemically treaded wool, another chemical system, or rely on chemically treated cotton batting (Boric Acid and Antimony) to pass the open flame test.

http://www.strobel.com/wool_burns.htm

I do have a sample of their cover, and I do work at a place with a metals lab. I can ask the lab manager if he can test it for me. I have no idea if they can or not, but I'll definitely ask.