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PROBLEM DESCRIPTION: We're looking for a new twin mattress, probably extra long, for my 86 year old mother to use on her adjustable bed. She has had progressive spine problems for about 40 years, somewhat alleviated by the fact that she's always exercised to the extent she was able and by two back surgeries (most recent about ten years ago). Her mobility has become increasingly limited, so a comfortable bed is increasingly important. Often firm mattresses are recommended for back problems, but for her, they are miserable. Last time we shopped for a mattress she was able to get to a large mattress store, tried many, and the only one she found comfortable seemed to me about as firm as jello. She loved her jello mattress for a number of years, however. But now she says her bed feels to her as if it has rocks in it. My efforts to locate the rocks have led me to conclude that perhaps her back, very sensitive to touch, is being irritated by places where the mattress has worn unevenly over the years at the points where her adjustable bed bends. So we're searching for a new mattress, without rocks. ;] We normally rotate or flip (alternately) her mattress every time the sheets are changed and I think this has helped maintain it as comfortable for her, so we are really looking for a two sided mattress -- and, I believe, we probably want Talalay latex. We live in rural Wyoming -- and those stores within a distance she can travel seem to have gone entirely with the single sided mattress lines, so we will probably order a mattress online, unless a local store suddenly acquires something suitable. QUESTION 1: We've been considering the OMI OrganicPedic Flora (100% natural rubber Talalay latex 3 inch firm core with two inches softer latex top and bottom enclosed in quilted wool/cotton -- rated medium firm) and also the Terra. The Terra appears to be the Flora with a removable, 100% natural rubber latex, two sided, flat/contoured attachable/detachable 3 1/2 inch topper, also enclosed in quilted wool/cotton -- Terra firmness rated plush -- presumably because of the soft topper. The Terra seemed a possiblity that would make enable us to change the firm/soft property and also the smooth/contoured surface property fairly easily, not only for initial comfort, but also because the sensitivity of different areas of her back varies from time to time. Price is comparatively high, but both because she puts more mileage on her bed than most of us, and because comfort in bed is important to maintaining the limited mobility she still has, we'd be willing to spend that, if the mattress would be good for her. Does anyone have any experience with these OMI OrganicPedic mattresses? It would be especially nice to know if they worked well on an adjustable bed, but reports of any kind of experience, even showroom tryout impressions, would be helpful. QUESTION 2: After several weeks of reading posts on this forum, the favorable reports of so many about their Flobeds caused us to consider that source. Their 90 day layer exchange period is certainly a big plus for someone who is unable to try out mattresses being considered. Some things I wondered about: a) It does not appear to me that these mattresses are designed to be flippable -- is that correct? I realize that one can open the mattress cover and shuffle layers, but that is surely more complicated that rotating/flipping a mattress -- and when you are accustomed to rotating/flipping frequently . . . I wonder if that would be a problem. b) Has anyone used these on an adjustable bed? I realize that separate latex layers tend not to slide over one another readily, but I wonder whether the frequent movements of an adjustable bed might cause them to get out of alignment, develop bumps where one layer bent more and the layer above bent less as the bed went up, etc. c) If one wished to change firmness or to replace a damaged layer after the 90 period, does Flobeds sell layers individually? QUESTION 3: Does anyone have any mattress suggestions they think would be better for our situation than the Organipedic or Flobed possibilities mentioned? QUESTION 4: I realize the forum topic is mattresses, not adjustable beds, but some here do seem to know about them. She currently has a twin extra long adjustable bed that works fairly well but I'd been wondering: a) Does anyone know of a maker/model of adjustable bed that has substantial height adjustment capacity? Her current bed has none, and all we've been able to find has about 12 inches of height adjustment in the middle height range. What I wish we could find is one that could go completely down to the floor and up to something a little above standard height. She has had times where she fell or got down on the floor and it was *very* difficult to get her up -- not because she was injured but because it's hard to help her when one shouldn't put pressure on her arms, shoulders or back. We've been kidding her about needing a monorail and harness like they used for Barbaro or some other type of "Momavator" that could elevate her from the floor, but we'd been thinking that if there was an adjustable bed that went really low, it might be a serious way to deal with such situations. And the ability to raise the height to a little above standard would be useful if she had a bedfast episode, which we try to avoid but which has happened in the past. b) Does anyone know of any reason it would be inappropriate to put larger wheels on her existing adjustable bed if they could be made to fit? We currently have her bed's feet on contoured blocks (blocks that elevate the bed's four feet but don't allow them to roll off the blocks) because the tiny wheels on the bed's feet sink into the carpet and make dents and because we want the room to be Roomba-friendly so the bottom of the bed needs to be high enough for Roomba to clear. Larger wheels might make it possible to eliminate the blocks, move the bed more easily, and keep Roomba happy. Thanks for any thoughts, JLJ |
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A lot of the mattress manufacturers I talked with ... especially those that had been around for a long time ... seemed to agree that flipping even a latex mattress would add a few years of life to an already very long lasting mattress. While latex is probably the most durable material out there, it is not immune from body impressions although they would be much less prevalent and take much longer to happen. Of the different types of latex (Talalay, Dunlop both all natural and blended) it seems that the all natural Talalay in the lower ILD's is the most likely to wear out or develop impressions. It is really a "green" driven product which is the primary reason they (Latex International) came out with it but does not have the same compression resistence as the blend according to the testing that has been done on it. This information came from several sources who would know. The other advantage of flipping even a latex mattress would be to extend the lifetime of the ticking and or quilting material. Wool will also compress over time although in the zippered covers you do have the option of getting a new cover or replacing just a layer of Latex. Ultimately, I decided that I wanted a flippable 2 sided mattress even though it was latex. It just seemed to be a better value. If it ever wears out, I would probably just tear it open and re-use the good latex with a new cover or re-use it in a new custom mattress. Phoenix This message was modified Oct 8, 2010 by Phoenix
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Just for the sake of complete disclosure, I also bought an queen size adjustable bed from here: http://www.usbeds.com/Brand/Reverie.aspx which is one of the websites for Olejo. I talked at length with Daniel there and they were amazingly helpful. I almost bought a mattress there as well but their only all latex bed had just been discontinued. They were very willing to take their prices down from already low pricing if you buy both. The Reverie supreme (with the massage etc ... aaahhhhh lol) was $929 including shipping which was by far the best anywhere I saw and is still their current price. When it arrived a few days ago, it had been damaged in transit so I refused delivery. They were amazingly quick in sending out a replacement with absolutely no problems and I just got a phone call that it will arrive on Monday. Can't say enough about how good they've been to deal with. Phoenix |
| Wow Phoenix, thank you for all of the links and info. !!! |
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Phoenix, those are some great links! I showed a few of those on the adjustable beds to Mom and she was fascinated -- wants me to send them to her computer just a couple at a time, so she can look them over thoroughly. That first one does seem to have the low to high travel range we've been looking for -- and the base looks Roomba-friendly. Thanks, Sandman, for the information on the non-flippability of the Flobeds -- even though it wasn't what I wanted to hear. I really do think we want something we can flip. We don't actually flip, then rotate, though it amounts to that -- what we do is flip side to side one time, then flip end to end, then flip side to side, etc. So the mattress switches which side is up every time the sheets are changed, and moves regularly through the four possible positions -- only being in exactly the same position 1/4 the time. I realize that latex doesn't compress much -- though I think the softer latex she likes might be more subject to compression than firmer latex -- but there seems to be consensus that in most beds, the outer layer of padding compresses and that that can combine with a small amount of compression in the latex itself. Avoiding any sort of "body impression" is important for her -- not only because she doesn't like the feel of it, but also because her problem spine behaves better if she turns frequently, and it doesn't take much of a "trough" to make that more difficult for her. And I think that even with a body-impression-resistant bed, regular flipping is likely to help keep that surface flat. Phoenix -- or anyone who's tried the OrganicPedic latex mattresses -- especially the Terra -- how would you rate it for softness? Mattress shopping -- AAARRRRRGH! Our Malamute gets on my bed, drags all the covers to the center, then turns until he's made a nice round nest. I believe his view is that if humans would just quit insisting on walking around on their hind legs, and would sleep smoothly curled into a sensible round nest such as he builds, their back problems would depart. Wonder if he's on to something? JLJ |
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Bearing in mind that "softness" is very subjective, the Terra was one of the nicest and softest I lay on. It was very comfortable to me (and my other half) and both of us like soft or plush beds because of pressure issues. It sort of became a "baseline" in the search. I lay on several of the Natura beds as well and none of them came close to the Terra in terms of initial impression. One of the things I found ... and both of us are sensitive to pressure points ... was that beds with 2" of softer latex on top didn't cut it for us. Same holds true for the 3 one inch layers (as opposed to 1 3" layer) which was similar to the 2" tops in feel. What happens is that I tend to "go through" the 2" layer and the transition into the firmer layer beneath was too abrupt and I could feel pressure on my hip (which I am sensitive to being a side sleeper). Many of the beds out there have a transition between the top layer and the next layer that is too abrupt for me and I prefer either a thicker top layer (3") or ILD's that are closer together (many beds will have an ILD of 16-20 on the top for example and then the next layer will be 32 or in that range ... which is too much difference for me). Bear in mind too that I did not spend the night on the Terra ... lay on it for about 10-15 minutes or so (on several occasions to "refresh" my memory of it) as I knew I wouldn't be buying it ... so I can't speak to it's ability to support, but I suspect it would be fine. I spent quite a bit of time experimenting with the feel of different layering both by lying on beds where I knew (asked) the ILD of the layers I was lying on and by lying on different combinations of 3" layers (I was fortunate to have a "mattress factory" nearby which was more like a retail outlet in their pricing and sold mainly commercial beds but did have layers of latex they could put together). Another combination that has an interesting effect is putting a slightly firmer layer on top of a softer one. You don't get the "transition" effect that comes from going through a layer and then meeting stiffer resistance but the second layer does "give" in a more general (not so point specific) way. I think that it's important to know the differences in personal "feel" to get your final configuration right. For the record, I am 6'5" and 195 so tall and slim with "bony" hips and shoulders quite a bit wider than my waist. My other half is 5'7" and evenly (I would say beautifully lol) proportioned. Luckily, it seems we both like the same makeup of bed probably because our weight distribution is similar even though our overall size is much different. We both have "pressure" issues as well as occasional lower back issues. One other thing that was very clear to me was that the materials (fibre, foam, etc) in the top layer and the method of finishing (tight top, quilting, etc) used in the ticking made a real difference in the feel of the bed. Compressed wool (used by many beds to comply with the fire code) and material with little give or elasticity on the top made the beds noticeably firmer. Thicker wool tops that were not so compressed were nicer but then they too will compress over time and you do lose some of the feel of latex if they are too thick or too compressed (even though the feel of thicker wool is quite nice). Looser more stretchable tops or quilting were my clear preference. This is the reason I was looking for a bed with quiltable latex in the top. I also noticed that a lot of manufacturers would use great latex in their beds until the very top layers where they would use poly foam for the top inch or two. While they may have felt very nice, I was determined for several reasons to eliminate any polyfoam from the equation with the possible exception of some of the new HR foams with a density over 2 used as an inch or two layer on the very bottom (and even that I'd rather avoid). Seems a shame to have an all latex bed topped with poly foam no matter how good it feels ... and of course the issues with how you will feel in 6 months or a few years are all over this and other forums. Considered memory foam as well and did a lot of research in that area ... especially with the newer memory foams that are more breathable (I tend to sleep hot) but ruled them out for many reasons. I did really like the feel of the top of the line NXG (575) with latex and memory foam and considered a combination of the two materials but I knew I would regret it if I went in that direction. Memory foam is a whole different animal but that's a whole other story. I do have to say though that regarding memory foam and the differences between them, the research that hayesdb did in the legacy forum and the early part of this one were really helpful. I just wish he was still around to update some of that information so I didn't have to lol. Hope this helps Phoenix This message was modified Oct 9, 2010 by Phoenix
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I am just reading this whole thread through and I gotta say great information is absolutely abounds in here. Phoenix thank you for taking the time to summarize all of this information. On the topic of the flobeds, although the cover of the mattress is only set up on one side, you could remove rubber cores and flip and rotate the pieces individually, this would in theory help prolong the life of the latex cores a little bit. In any event all the links to different adjustable bed bases has really opened my eyes up to some options I had never seen before, base options are limited here in Canada. Definitely some great options from Reverie and Ergomotion that I am not very interested in adding to our store here in the future. |
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Phoenix, thanks for the comprehensive and detailed posts. I recently returned an S&F coil spring mattress and have since been reading the forum, with the intent to give latex a try. There appeared to be be limited options: I'm on a very tight budget and you've opened my eyes to other possibilities. You did some great quality research: thanks again for taking the time to write it up. |
| JLJ, if your mother hasn't tried latex before, I'd suggest she try it before you invest in a bed. Per several other threads, some of us simply aren't compatible with latex and in those cases, latex can cause considerable pain that just gets worse over time (and might even create permanent problems). |
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Just curious ... how are you making out? Since it was your post that sort of "turned on the tap" of posting a lot of what I had discovered, I'm wondering how you and your mom are doing with your "research"? Phoenix |
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Phoenix wrote: Just curious ... how are you making out?
Since it was your post that sort of "turned on the tap" of posting a lot of what I had discovered, I'm wondering how you and your mom are doing with your "research"? Phoenix Well, the past couple of weeks I've been mostly dealing with "winter is coming" weather changes and gnashing my teeth down flat whenever I think of mattress shopping. I believe that the mattress Mom has -- which she loved for a number of years -- is latex. The tag doesn't say -- doesn't have any contents at all listed in the space for it on the tag at the head of the bed. There are a number of letters and numbers written on the back of that tag which might contain the info -- but when she first began to be unhappy with it, a couple of years ago, I wrote to the small midwestern mattress manufacturer that made it -- with the intention of ordering a new mattress similar to it, or if that wasn't possible, of finding out what was in it. They have a website, so presumably still exist, but I haven't been able to get a reply from them of any sort. So, assuming it is latex, I don't know what sort of latex, ILD, etc. I had contacted a fairly large, reputable -- I think -- northwestern mattress dealer and asked about the Terra about the same time I posted here. They replied, recommending "their firmest latex mattress" "Englander 5003" -- firm because I'd said "these days most mattresses are fairly soft and feel like Jello". I'd actually said, as I did here, that the mattress Mom loved felt to *me* like Jello. So I replied, explaining this again, saying that we'd considered Englanders, but that information on exactly what is in their mattresses seems to be difficult to get, and while some user reviews are favorable, there are so many unhappy Englander owners complaining of short mattress lifetimes, substantial "body impressions" and even lopsided construction that -- while I realize that the varied reports may be due to Englanders being produced by different regional manfacturers, whose differing standards might account for varied quality reports -- my overall conclusion is that that if I wanted the kind of hassle some Englander purchasers are having I might as well deal with the S mattress companies. I included in the reply a copy of my original inquiry, stating what sort of mattress we were looking for and asking about the OMI organicpedic Terra. I got a reply, recommending Englanders 6" medium density core topped with a natura 3" soft latex topper as a good combination to ensure that "the softness that people are complaining about is not an issue" and saying that "if you must have an all Talalay mattress Natura makes several mattresses that would work for your mother. From this I conclude #1 the person doing their email is incapable of understanding that Mom *likes* a very soft mattress. #2 either there is something dreadful about OMI Organicpedic mattresses, or else for some reason they don't want to sell them, even though they feature them on their website. (I could understand a reply that said "The Terra has these advantages, or a more economical way to get a similar feeling mattress might be . . . " but their replies have just ignored my Terra inquiries. I'm beginning to consider also #3 -- there's something odd about this business -- as, while their earlier responses have sounded professional -- even if they did persist in pushing Englanders and ignoring my Terra inquiries -- I received a message from them a couple of days ago, quoting my earlier messages and saying, " Im am out " I've no idea what that means. I wish I could email a different person and find out if their reluctance to talk about the organicpedic is store policy or just a property of someone who is perhaps is in a contest to sell the most Englanders or who gets more commission for selling Englanders -- but I don't know how to achieve that. And if for whatever reason they don't want to sell organicpedics than I'd be better off to look elsewhere, as I can't get legitimate organicpedic vs. other brand comparison advice in that case -- and if I bought an organicpedic they didn't want to sell and had trouble they'd be unlikely to be helpful. Also, while the OMI organicpedic folks' website FAQ references "industry-leading 20-year limited warranty", there's no copy of it on the website, I emailed them and asked if they could point me to a copy of it -- no reply. So, mostly, I'm just discouraged. I haven't had time to chase down all the mattress links thoroughly, but at this point, I haven't seen anything that I think is as likely to be something Mom would like as the Terra because: 1) Quality components, and I suspect that the natural talalay latex might wear better on an adjustable bed -- especially with someone who puts a lot of "mileage" on the bed -- because of the more even structure of the talalay process 2) Two sided, flippable -- I think this is likely to prolong quality -- but even if it wasn't, I'd want one that's flippable because she likes having it flipped every time her sheets are changed. 3) Topper piece has two different surfaces and attaches to the main mattress, instead of just lying on it. The two different surfaces -- in addition to the surface of the regular mattress itself -- would seem to provide easy adjustment of "feel" of the mattress, which seems desirable as her back's problem level varies from time to time. And having the topper attach seems to me likely to make it work better on an adjustable bed. 4) Phoenix and mate -- two people with different builds who like soft mattresses -- say Terra is feels soft and comfortable. I'm not at all opposed to finding the same features at a lower price -- but I haven't seen that feature-combination elsewhere. And while the price difference for the twin size Terra compared to other mattresses is fairly horrifying, it's not as bad as it would be with a larger bed. And truthfully, *all* the even allegedly decent mattresses seem to have fairly appalling prices -- so it seems to me the more important factor is finding #1 comfort and #2 durable quality. I wondered how Phoenix and mate like the mattress they'd ordered. Or if it has arrived? We're still looking at adjustable bed frames -- need to decide for sure whether to get a new one before placing a mattress order -- but at this point aren't making much progress with ordering a mattress. Budgy -- don't you think you want to open a branch store in the Big Horn mountains? JLJ
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