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We suffered through high end (S&F) pillowtops for years (yeah, I now know, don't buy a pillowtop).
So after reading plenty of reviews on foam and laying on, but deciding not to spend $5K on a King size Tempurpedic or $2500+ on the "S" brand new age foams, we decided to try the NovaForm Gel 12" foam mattress from Costco both due to the price and the liberal return policy. Well, all was good.................. for a while. Purchased King size Novaform Gel Memory about 1 1/2 months ago. Let it air out for 2 days and complaints about the smell were non-existent. I would like to stay with Costco as in my state, mattress returns are not legal (though Costco allows it, probably because they can ship out of state) So now the big question is , where do we go from here? This message was modified Oct 15, 2011 by robertwhite
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robertwhite wrote:
No, there is very little give at all times, it just gets like a rock in cooler weather. Basically, it goes from firm to extra firm. Not exactly how it is described or was designed as far as I am concerned. When I lay in it, I barely sink, even after several minutes, and I am 185lbs. We just have a protect a bed. NO mattress pad. Here's a description of the Costco deluxe 12" Novaform mattress - 'The top layer is our 2.5" premium memory foam, for a balanced combination of cradling comfort and gentle support – with the revolutionary addition of NutraFresh™ treatment, for lasting freshness and no "new foam smell." The 2.5" middle layer is made of deeply sculpted premium foam, for dramatically improved air circulation and firm support. And the 7" bottom layer is made of premium base foam which adds stability and therapeutic support.'
Ok, so there's only 2.5" of memory foam, total in the mattress. That's not much. And it's Sleep Innovations memory foam which is NOT Tempurpedic memory foam. Then there's a 2.5" layer of regular foam that provides 'firm support'. I think that's the problem. Just a bit of memory foam, then a firm support layer just underneath. Sounds like an iComfort genius which always felt too firm to me in the store. Don't think I'd like this Novaform mattress either.
This message was modified Oct 16, 2011 by slpngoc
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robertwhite wrote: Now that the weather is cool every night, both my wife and myself get no sleep (tossing and turning) and we both wake up with aches and pains. Costco offers a variety of toppers, and I see on their Web site that they have a heated mattress pad on sale now. Some sort of wool topper or pad might also help you retain heat.
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robertwhite wrote:
As for the iComfort, you do realize it is made by Sleep Innovations, the same company that makes the Novaform, right? And BTW, if you can find an iComfort Revolution or whatever they call it for $1200 in a King size, please let me know, as I will buy it just to try it out. A King size is WELL into the $2K range without an adjustable base. DIY foam is not going to happen. Why would I take the chance on an unknown feel if we are having trouble with a known memory feel? That makes zero sense. Robert, iComforts are assembled by Serta. I had a Revolution for 4 weeks and yes the tag says Serta, Moreno Valley, CA. However, I'm darn sure the gel memory foam is sourced form Sleep Innovations. Hear me out - like said, I had a brand new iComfort Revolution for 4 weeks. I don't care how one slices it, that mattress, IMO, qualifies as an ultra plush. I slept on it for 4 weeks, had other family members try it .... it causes a body to sink a lot into it. Sounds good, but this led to neck pains, and scraping sound. My neck does not do that! And now it is fine again. People don't like to hear that Revolution is so plush. I found some bad things about the iComfort. I've been saying this over and over. First, the box spring was very cheesy. the surface rods permanently bent a good 1/4" and deformed guaranteeing some sagging in the middle. Also, the ad board stated, in Sears - 2.75" gel foam and 2" Koolcomfort memory foam, for 4.75" total. They couldn't even get that right. I measured carefully to find 5.75" memory foam total ... tooo much IMO. The core is 6", all iComforts are, the mattress 11.75" high, so 5.75" memory foam total. They couldn't even put in what they say in the mattress. To me that reeks of low quality. Sounds harsh, but that was my experience. And when I had to sell it private. it wasn't worth squat at 4 weeks old pawned off a $1500 twin XL for $175. i saw used Tempurpedic Queen asking $1000. |
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Catherine wrote:
Costco offers a variety of toppers, and I see on their Web site that they have a heated mattress pad on sale now. Some sort of wool topper or pad might also help you retain heat.
I thought about a topper, but that is defeating the purpose of the mattress in the first place. I do have a topper from our previous bed that I may try just for kicks, but in no way are we pleased with the Novaform on its own. |
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robertwhite wrote:
Sooooooo, I decided to check out Tempurpedics "warranty" and guess what? Just as suspected. Here is why, copied right from their website. Highlights I found in bold. 90 Day Tryout Here’s how it works:
This tells me that you have to buy directly from them and if you don't like it, call them and their staff will try and convince you to keep the mattress. If you refuse, they will take it back as long as you pay them the "shipping and handling" fees. You lose the tax, no matter what.
So, in further reading, there is this.......... 90 Night Tryout details
Pretty cut and dry. If you buy from ANY retail store, there is NO 90 day trial, period. No matter how much BS a store tells you. If a store "offers" it they are full of sh!t and you are at their mercy to honor what they tell you. If you buy it from TP directly, you can return it for a cost "generally" in the $200-$325 range. King size of course is more, probably much more. Oh, and if you purchased an adjustable foundation, or pillows, etc, you are stuck with them, period. NO returns. I had a feeling it was all hype and obviously, their 90 day trial is just that. Unless of course you want to pay full retail (without all the extra stuff a store would throw in) AND you want to throw away upwards of $400 if you don't like it before the trial period ends. And be stuck with an adjustable base (if you bought one) that is now useless without a foam bed. I don't recommend an adjustable base. I had one for 4 weeks, and it seems more for 'kicking back' in bed (watching TV, reading paper). When I sleep, I want a flat bed. Also, if you adjust the bed up during the night, you're stuck laying on your back. Then have to adjust flat to turn at all. So, relax and don't worry about having an adjustable. I just returned a $1500 Tempurpedic adjustable base to our chain Sleep Train to get the fixed foundation, and I got the tax back as well. --------------------------------------------- At least the Sleep Science 10" has 3" memory foam over core foam. The Ara has apparently 7" memory foam over a 6" core??? Why so much memory foam. The only other bed I can think of that I would have like to try was a Simmons Beautyrest model from Sears named 'St Bees evenloft' comes in plush or firm. I liked it because it has a combo of Simmons NxG memory foam and regular foam in top layers and individual coils beneath. It had a smooth surface with no quilted / button tucks. This message was modified Oct 16, 2011 by slpngoc
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robertwhite wrote:
The bed does NOT sleep hot or cold. That is not a problem. The issue is that the bed itself changes with the temp. I thought about a topper, but that is defeating the purpose of the mattress in the first place. I do have a topper from our previous bed that I may try just for kicks, but in no way are we pleased with the Novaform on its own. You stated the bed is firm all the time and goes to firmer when cold. Does the bed feel good in the best of temperature? I doubt I'd like it given that 'firm foam' underneath the memory foam.
First off, any mattress by Sleep Innovations and Novaform is found NO where in any major chain retail bed store around here. Tells me something. If they can't get the bed into a major store, it likely kinda sucks. Manicinl's keeps saying they're going to start carrying iComforts. Good luck with that. Tempurpedic is going to kick iComfort's butt. I think the Novaform is so firm because it is only 2.5" memory foam over 2.5" firm regular support foam just underneath. Sounds like that support foam is screwing up the feel of the mattress. I think Sleep Innovations / iComfort (Serta) / Novaform are quite familiar with each other. Ever tried an iComfort genius? it's kind of a brick to me. It's 2.75" gel memory foam over a 2" firm support foam over 6" core. sounds just about like your mattress. I've tried it in store, its too firm, I don't like it. Off top of my head, I can't think of one TP model that has a 'firm support' foam sandwiched between a core and memory foam top. This message was modified Oct 16, 2011 by slpngoc
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robertwhite wrote: The bed does NOT sleep hot or cold. That is not a problem. The issue is that the bed itself changes with the temp. I thought about a topper, but that is defeating the purpose of the mattress in the first place. I do have a topper from our previous bed that I may try just for kicks, but in no way are we pleased with the Novaform on its own. I need to sign off after this post, but I'll leave you with this - I don't think Tempurpedic is just a bunch of hype and they are out to rip customers off. I slept on a TP Symphony pillow for 4 years, and it was the best pillow I've ever had. duly noted. I was a little skeptical over TP mattress reviews. After trying a brand new S&F, iComfort, then SleepEZ latex and still not satisfied, I took another step and bought a Tempurpedic comfort pillow. ... better than Symphony pillow and the best pillow I've ever had. I bought an entry level 8" tall Cloud TP mattress. Best mattress I've ever had. Ever. Exchanged adjustable base for fixed TP foundation. Wow, what a solid, well built foundation, best I've ever seen. Will I still love it in 8 years? I don't know, but it's looking good so far! BCM Union City, CA This message was modified Oct 16, 2011 by slpngoc
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slpngoc wrote:
You stated the bed is firm all the time and goes to firmer when cold. Does the bed feel good in the best of temperature? I doubt I'd like it given that 'firm foam' underneath the memory foam.
First off, any mattress by Sleep Innovations and Novaform is found NO where in any major chain retail bed store around here. Tells me something. If they can't get the bed into a major store, it likely kinda sucks. Manicinl's keeps saying they're going to start carrying iComforts. Good luck with that. Tempurpedic is going to kick iComfort's butt. I think the Novaform is so firm because it is only 2.5" memory foam over 2.5" firm regular support foam just underneath. Sounds like that support foam is screwing up the feel of the mattress. I think Sleep Innovations / iComfort (Serta) / Novaform are quite familiar with each other. Ever tried an iComfort genius? it's kind of a brick to me. It's 2.75" gel memory foam over a 2" firm support foam over 6" core. sounds just about like your mattress. I've tried it in store, its too firm, I don't like it. Off top of my head, I can't think of one TP model that has a 'firm support' foam sandwiched between a core and memory foam top. You also said that Sleep Innovations is not in any chain store near you, but if the store has the Serta iComfort, they absolutely have Sleep Innovations in the store. I would imagine that you may be correct about the middle core being the root cause of the problem. I would REALLY like to try out the TP, but the "no store has the 90 day trial" thing has REALLY turned me off. Why does every store you walk in (I remember them when I lived in the Northeast) that carries TP, boldy have the signs posted? To me, that is a huge scam. As I said, TP freely admits the stores don't have it, and I surely would not trust a stores word. If they will put it in writing, I may then take a chance, until then its not going to happen.
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robertwhite wrote:
You also said that Sleep Innovations is not in any chain store near you, but if the store has the Serta iComfort, they absolutely have Sleep Innovations in the store. I would imagine that you may be correct about the middle core being the root cause of the problem. I would REALLY like to try out the TP, but the "no store has the 90 day trial" thing has REALLY turned me off. Why does every store you walk in (I remember them when I lived in the Northeast) that carries TP, boldy have the signs posted? To me, that is a huge scam. As I said, TP freely admits the stores don't have it, and I surely would not trust a stores word. If they will put it in writing, I may then take a chance, until then its not going to happen.
It seems all of the Novaform mattresses have 2.5" gel memory foam over some type of 2 ish inches of support foam or 'wave foam', then a 7" core. At least the $999 11" Hybrid Bliss has 2" combined memory foam over 2" medium latex over the 7" core. That should give a little softer feel than the 2.5" gel foam over the 'firm layer' that's in your basic Novaform. --------------------------------------- Are you saying the stores in NE had '90 day trial' TP signs posted yet they didn't offer refunds when buying from store? I'm not sure what the TP scam is your speaking of. Scam because they have big ad signs in store?? Tempurpedic is a BIG advertiser. Easy to say they are the biggest advertising bed company today. The rep explained that Sealy, Simmons and Serta are still much bigger than Tempurpedic now. The don't need to advertise at 6pm on primetime TV. But, Tempurpedic believes in their products and they obviously spend tons of money on advertising. Every store has a sign or neon signs. They are not shy about their products. Mine is worth the money I spent on it. After what I've been through the last five months, I'm happy to have spent $1450 + tax for a twin XL Cloud set. I could have spent $899 for an iComfort insight set from Sears, got a cheesy box spring with 2.75" gel memory foam over 6" core foam and no air flow channel to vent air, just a promise that gel foam magically dissipates heat better.
This message was modified Oct 16, 2011 by slpngoc
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slpngoc wrote:
Here's a description of the Costco deluxe 12" Novaform mattress - 'The top layer is our 2.5" premium memory foam, for a balanced combination of cradling comfort and gentle support – with the revolutionary addition of NutraFresh™ treatment, for lasting freshness and no "new foam smell." The 2.5" middle layer is made of deeply sculpted premium foam, for dramatically improved air circulation and firm support. And the 7" bottom layer is made of premium base foam which adds stability and therapeutic support.'
Ok, so there's only 2.5" of memory foam, total in the mattress. That's not much. And it's Sleep Innovations memory foam which is NOT Tempurpedic memory foam. Then there's a 2.5" layer of regular foam that provides 'firm support'. I think that's the problem. Just a bit of memory foam, then a firm support layer just underneath. Sounds like an iComfort genius which always felt too firm to me in the store. Don't think I'd like this Novaform mattress either.
And what's with the "deeply sculpted premium foam"? Hunh? Scupted as in how? Is it or flat or is carved out in some way? Or just what is "deeply sculpted' supposed to mean? It's nonsense like this that steers me away from products like this. When they start hyping up the language to make it sound like something it is not, that is the first sign of dishonesty, and I'm not about to reward it with my hard-earned dollars. How about some straight facts instead of jazzed up commercialized nonsense? Bwah. Spit em out and steer clear. |