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Okay, my mattress is just not working out for me and I'm re-thinking it all. My recent trip to my sister's home where I slept on a "regular" mattress for 2 nights and woke up with NO back pain, is making me realize I need to make changes. (I discount the theory that it was better just because I was "on vacation" because actually it was a stressful situation.) I'm going "back to basics", trying to think outside the box springs.( I know - bad pun. 1) What is the best platform for a latex+springs mattress in your opinions? Currently I am using a Sealy box springs (about 8 years old I think) which is made with some more-or-less heavy gauge wire on top, not wood. I always figured the platform or box springs really doesn't matter. But is it possible this is the problem - or a problem - with my mattress configuration? I have been wondering if I should build a wooden platform like the one Laredo created in this thread (has photos!). It's all wood with slats. OR, should I buy a new box springs. If so which one? I think most SCo's now use boxes that have wood slats on top instead of wire. Right? So if I should buy a "regular" box springs, which one? So should I use wood or old-style box springs as a foundation for my springs+latex mattress? What are you latex+springs folks using for your platform and why? 2) Springs. I'm convinced my Englander 12.5 gauge springs are too firm for me and don't comform to my body. So which springs should I try next? I'm still trying to find out what kind of springs my sister's guest bed had, that I liked. I may never find out, based on how hard it is to get her to go in there and look, and she's 2 thousand miles away... or she may have looked and not found a label. So I'm interested in your opinions. I think the idea of pocket coils sounds good in theory and I liked my old Simmons for about 6 months and then it either gave out or the springs migrated. That was about 12 years ago. I don't know what the problem was but it really hurt my back after I moved it to a new apartment. I think the springs migrated. I believe Budgy said in another thread that I can't find, that Simmons springs don't migrate now but they are now too stiff or something. I don't know if he answered my question: "So who does make good pocket coils now?" as I can't find the thread. (Sure wish this forum had the ability to Bookmark threads! Guess I'll have to start just putting them in my Browser bookmarks.) Or should I even try pocket coils? Someone said that offset coils from Sealy are pretty good but then didn't I read that they don't conform very well to your body? Or am I confused? So many springs, so little time! So all of you who have springs and like them, which ones do you like and why? 3) For the interim, I am thinking of trying a softer latex layer on top of my configuration. Should I go with the 14ILD Talatech or the 24ILD natural Talalay?
Someone at a foam place (who does not sell it) recommended I try a 14ILD but I am wondering if that would give NO support and be worthless to me. Does 14ILD Talatech provide enough support to not just be as useless (to me) as memory foam? I know the 32ILD Natural Talalay is too firm for me. It feels like it's pushing back against me too much and causes me pain. So is a 24ILD going to be enough softer but still supportive? I like the support of latex better than anything else. I recently tried my HR foam again and ecchh! it feels just "dead", more like Dunlop. Yet Talalay feels like it pushes back too much. I can't win... (Maybe the softer Talalay is the answer?) Thanks for your help! This message was modified May 24, 2010 by jimsocal
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) Especially those of you who have had or do have springs under your latex, please opine:|
im with Pianoman here (also love the use of the word fail lol). I think its worth trying before you spend any more money on changing something else, its the best empirical way to see if the boxspring is causing issues for you right now. |
| I have a twin mattress that is my "experiment" - trying out all sorts of things on it. I sits on an Ikea box spring (bonnel coils). I felt it was lacking support on the box so I moved it to the floor. When I put it on the floor it felt considerably firmer than on the Ikea box. In fact it was too firm on the floor. So I have it back on the box but I slipped a folded towel between the mattress and box, positioned under my ribcage. This gave it the little extra support I needed for that area without making it too firm under my shoulders and hips. Just goes to show how a box spring/foundation, or even a folded towel, can make a significant contribution to the whole setup. |
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As some have suggested, maybe try the mattress on the floor or possibly swap the box spring with your wife if hers is different. The box spring seem real firm if you lay on just it?
I think you have mentioned that you prefer your wife's mattress. What kind of springs does it have? This message was modified May 26, 2010 by sandman
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Thanks for all the suggestions. Sorry I have not been here for a day or two to respond. cynical, we do have an IKEA but it's about 45 min. away. However I will try to get over there some day in the near future. pianoman and budgy, yes I think trying the mattress without the box is going to be my first step. I have always felt that this couldn't be the problem, but I guess it could be, after all, couldn't it? So I'll try that. DiankeK - An Ikea box springs with Bonnell coils? Did you write that correctly? That sounds very interesting and might be something I'd like to try. Can you tell me the name of it? Cost? etc. As to pocket coils: Budgy - are there any pocket coils "out there" that would be any good for mattress surgery? I would try to leave the mattress alone and NOT do surgery of course, but with the pu foam in it, I am sure I'd probably have to do surgery sooner or later (probably sooner). The idea of foam around the edges I think would make a twin bed too small. It's already really too small but I don't have room for a bigger one. So if I were to buy pocket coils I'd have to get one without any - or with very little - foam encasing along the edges. And as someone pointed out, doing surgery might not work on pocket coils. Budgy, what do you think about all this pocket coil stuff? Are there any good ones and are there any I could do surgery with? If not, then what - in your opinion - type of springs would be the next best thing for me. Right now my mattress feels very good when I get into bed and I get a good 6 hours of sleep but then the last 2-3 hours starts to hurt my MID-back and by the time I get out of bed, I am just plan sore all over my back more or less from top to bottom but not really lower back. I've been experimenting with various configurations. I even went back to a 1" layer of HR foam but am now taking that back out. I also incorporated a 3/4" piece of very soft memory foam just to soften the whole thing up, and actually it does seem to help and since I'm not getting LOWER back pain I may stick with that either on top or on the bottom next to the springs... The other layer(s) has been my 1" 32ILD natural Talalay and my 3/4" latex mystery Talalay - maybe 28-32ILD maybe Talalay or Talatech. And sometimes with my 2" fluffy wool topper and sometimes without it.
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| Yes, I wrote that correctly although I misspelled Bonell. Ikea always likes to change things so the box I have no longer exists, at least not under the name I have. But if you look at their 2 Sultan box spring foundations they currently have, they both have Bonell coils. |
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Jim: I think any non-foam encased pocket coil will work fine for mattress surgery. |
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What type of memory foam are you using? If it is the fake blue Venus, it probably does not provide much support. I have a blue piece from overstock (not called Venus but I think it is the same maker, same density) and it provides less support than the Sensus. I think the Sensus is okay (especially for pressue point relief), but I don't think it breathes as well. So, I use some further down in the stack. Sensus or 14-19 ILD latex will probably be an improvement over the fake blue MF. I am also not sure you unknown piece of latex is the best quality. It could be all synthetic. You may want to upgrade that to 24 ILD 100% natural. I hate to suggest these things after all the money you have spent, but it is possible you need to upgrade those pieces. Right now you are not playing with a full deck (of quality layer options that is)
This message was modified May 26, 2010 by sandman
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Hey sandman, my wife and others may well think I'm just not playing with a full deck! My fiesta platter may be short a couple of tacos!  I appreciate your thoughts about my stack, though. The latex seems to be good quality. The blue "Venus" memfoam is junk. I hated it from the day I got it from Ostock (well almost that day, anyway), and I only use it sometimes because it's the best 1" thick piece I have, and the 2" thick Sensus I have is just too thick for me. I sink down into it and it hurts my lower back. Now: I did try my mattress without the box springs last night, just flat on the floor. I must say that all along I was very doubtful that the box springs was the problem. And when I pulled the mattress off last night and looked at it, I thought, "Hmmm. It looks to be in very good shape, no dip at all, and the wire across it seems to be very thick steel, so I doubt that is the problem." But in the interest of science, I tried sleeping without it, anyway. Owwww! My back killed me. Just TOOO firm without the box springs! I was actually surprised because I thought the box spring wasn't bad, but I also thought it wasn't good, just neutral. But now I see that the box springs does provide a bit of "give" and so it's a good thing. So back to the drawing board... I'm going to take the 1" layer of HR foam out that I had tried - out of desperation - for a few nights. I tried it in various locations in the "stack", and I think all of it was worse than without it. So now I'm going back to something like I had before, because although it wasn't GOOD, it was at least better than this and gave me about 6 hours of good sleep before starting to hurt my mid-back. I am thinking my next move may be to buy a 19ILD latex layer. Should it be one inch or two inches? I'm thinking one inch or 1.5" because like I said, the 2" Sensus is just too much softness for me. A 24ILD might work, but not sure that would be that different than the latex I have - the mystery piece - which I think is about 28ILD. And my funds are very limited, my apartment is already over-full of useless foam, and so I want to make sure my next purchase helps... But really, I don't know that any of it will... This message was modified May 27, 2010 by jimsocal
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JIm, have you tried the 2" of Sensus under your 2" of latex? 2" MF probably too much for you, but if you have never tried it that way, maybe worth a shot. So, have you concluded your box spring is okay? I assume a wood slat one would be pretty firm, maybe too firm given your floor experiment? On your next piece, it is a judement call and only trial and error will really resolve it. SLAB does not show 1.5" on their website, and Sleepez does not show 19ILD (or less). Either one may be able to custom order. Foambymail has 20ILD naturual talalay at a good price, but I am not sure I trust their ILD ratings. I think others may have said they could not tell a difference between the soft and firm? SLAB does allow returns within 90 days (less shipping both ways and maybe a handling fee?), so you may just have to take your best guess and gamble on something. It does seem that replacing the fake Venus and/or HR foam will be an improvement. The 19 ILD vs. the Venus will give a firmer more supportive feel, but not sure if it will be too firm. |
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sandman wrote: JIm, have you tried the 2" of Sensus under your 2" of latex? 2" MF probably too much for you, but if you have never tried it that way, maybe worth a shot. So, have you concluded your box spring is okay? I assume a wood slat one would be pretty firm, maybe too firm given your floor experiment? On your next piece, it is a judement call and only trial and error will really resolve it. SLAB does not show 1.5" on their website, and Sleepez does not show 19ILD (or less). Either one may be able to custom order. Foambymail has 20ILD naturual talalay at a good price, but I am not sure I trust their ILD ratings. I think others may have said they could not tell a difference between the soft and firm? SLAB does allow returns within 90 days (less shipping both ways and maybe a handling fee?), so you may just have to take your best guess and gamble on something. It does seem that replacing the fake Venus and/or HR foam will be an improvement. The 19 ILD vs. the Venus will give a firmer more supportive feel, but not sure if it will be too firm. Thanks for your thoughts, as usual. Yeah, I"ve tried EVERY configuration! Yes, the box springs is definitely fine. Very thick firm steel wire and no dip that I can feel or see. So I put it back under me because the floor was too firm. No platform bed for me! I know now that this type of box spring is good for me, at least with this mattress. Right now I can't afford to buy a topper anyway, so am just making do and playing around. I may try the Sensus again, on the bottom layer as you suggest. I did try the Venus as a bottom layer recently and it seemed to be okay but still did not give me 8 hours of comfort. Now I have the Venus back on top with the 2 latex layers under it and it's better than it was but again, still, not 8 hours of comfort. Oh well. It is what it is. |
