Mattress Forum

Thanks, Sandman, for the information on the non-flippability of the Flobeds -- even though it wasn't what I wanted to hear. 

I really do think we want something we can flip.  We don't actually flip, then rotate, though it amounts to that -- what we do is flip side to side one time, then flip end to end, then flip side to side, etc.  So the mattress switches which side is up every time the sheets are changed, and moves regularly through the four possible positions -- only being in exactly the same position 1/4 the time.  I realize that latex doesn't compress much -- though I think the softer latex she likes might be more subject to compression than firmer latex -- but there seems to be consensus that in most beds, the outer layer of padding compresses and that that can combine with a small amount of compression in the latex itself.  Avoiding any sort of "body impression" is important for her -- not only because she doesn't like the feel of it, but also because her problem spine behaves better if she turns frequently, and it doesn't take much of a "trough" to make that more difficult for her.  And I think that even with a body-impression-resistant bed, regular flipping is likely to help keep that surface flat.

Phoenix -- or anyone who's tried the OrganicPedic latex mattresses -- especially the Terra -- how would you rate it for softness?

Mattress shopping -- AAARRRRRGH!  Our Malamute gets on my bed, drags all the covers to the center, then turns until he's made a nice round nest.  I believe his view is that if humans would just quit insisting on walking around on their hind legs, and would sleep smoothly curled into a sensible round nest such as he builds, their back problems would depart.  Wonder if he's on to something?

JLJ

Bear in mind too that I did not spend the night on the Terra ... lay on it for about 10-15 minutes or so (on several occasions to "refresh" my memory of it) as I knew I wouldn't be buying it ... so I can't speak to it's ability to support, but I suspect it would be fine.

I spent quite a bit of time experimenting with the feel of different layering both by lying on beds where I knew (asked) the ILD of the layers I was lying on and by lying on different combinations of 3" layers (I was fortunate to have a "mattress factory" nearby which was more like a retail outlet in their pricing and sold mainly commercial beds but did have layers of latex they could put together). Another combination that has an interesting effect is putting a slightly firmer layer on top of a softer one. You don't get the "transition" effect that comes from going through a layer and then meeting stiffer resistance but the second layer does "give" in a more general (not so point specific) way. I think that it's important to know the differences in personal "feel" to get your final configuration right.

For the record, I am 6'5" and 195 so tall and slim with "bony" hips and shoulders quite a bit wider than my waist. My other half is 5'7" and evenly (I would say beautifully lol) proportioned. Luckily, it seems we both like the same makeup of bed probably because our weight distribution is similar even though our overall size is much different. We both have "pressure" issues as well as occasional lower back issues.

One other thing that was very clear to me was that the materials (fibre, foam,  etc) in the top layer and the method of finishing (tight top, quilting, etc) used in the ticking made a real difference in the feel of the bed. Compressed wool (used by many beds to comply with the fire code) and material with little give or elasticity on the top made the beds noticeably firmer. Thicker wool tops that were not so compressed were nicer but then they too will compress over time and you do lose some of the feel of latex if they are too thick or too compressed (even though the feel of thicker wool is quite nice). Looser more stretchable tops or quilting were my clear preference. This is the reason I was looking for a bed with quiltable latex in the top. I also noticed that a lot of manufacturers would use great latex in their beds until the very top layers where they would use poly foam for the top inch or two. While they may have felt very nice, I was determined for several reasons to eliminate any polyfoam from the equation with the possible exception of some of the new HR foams with a density over 2 used as an inch or two layer on the very bottom (and even that I'd rather avoid). Seems a shame to have an all latex bed topped with poly foam no matter how good it feels ... and of course the issues with how you will feel in 6 months or a few years are all over this and other forums.

Considered memory foam as well and did a lot of research in that area ... especially with the newer memory foams that are more breathable (I tend to sleep hot) but ruled them out for many reasons. I did really  like the feel of the top of the line NXG (575) with latex and memory foam and considered a combination of the two materials but I knew I would regret it if I went in that direction. Memory foam is a whole different animal but that's a whole other story. I do have to say though that regarding memory foam and the differences between them, the research that hayesdb did in the legacy forum and the early part of this one were really helpful. I just wish he was still around to update some of that information so I didn't have to lol.

Hope this helps

Phoenix

On the topic of the flobeds, although the cover of the mattress is only set up on one side, you could remove rubber cores and flip and rotate the pieces individually, this would in theory help prolong the life of the latex cores a little bit. 

In any event all the links to different adjustable bed bases has really opened my eyes up to some options I had never seen before, base options are limited here in Canada.  Definitely some great options from Reverie and Ergomotion that I am not very interested in adding to our store here in the future.

Phoenix, thanks for the comprehensive and detailed posts.

I recently returned an S&F coil spring mattress and have since been reading the forum, with the intent to give latex a try. There appeared to be be limited options: I'm  on a very tight budget and you've opened my eyes to other possibilities. 

You did some great quality research:  thanks again for taking the time to write it up. 

Since it was your post that sort of "turned on the tap" of posting a lot of what I had discovered, I'm wondering how you and your mom are doing with your "research"?

Phoenix

Well, the past couple of weeks I've been mostly dealing with "winter is coming" weather changes and gnashing my teeth down flat whenever I think of mattress shopping.

I believe that the mattress Mom has -- which she loved for a number of years -- is latex.  The tag doesn't say -- doesn't have any contents at all listed in the space for it on the tag at the head of the bed.  There are a number of letters and numbers written on the back of that tag which might contain the info -- but when she first began to be unhappy with it, a couple of years ago, I wrote to the small midwestern mattress manufacturer that made it -- with the intention of ordering a new mattress similar to it, or if that wasn't possible, of finding out what was in it.  They have a website, so presumably still exist, but I haven't been able to get a reply from them of any sort.  So, assuming it is latex, I don't know what sort of latex, ILD, etc.

I had contacted a fairly large, reputable -- I think -- northwestern mattress dealer and asked about the Terra about the same time I posted here.    They replied, recommending "their firmest latex mattress" "Englander 5003" -- firm because I'd said "these days most mattresses are fairly soft and feel like Jello".  I'd actually said, as I did here, that the mattress Mom loved felt to *me* like Jello.

So I replied, explaining this again, saying that we'd considered Englanders, but that information on exactly what is in their mattresses seems to be difficult to get, and while some user reviews are favorable, there are so many unhappy Englander owners complaining of short mattress lifetimes, substantial "body impressions" and even lopsided construction that -- while I realize that the varied reports may be due to Englanders being produced by different regional manfacturers, whose differing standards might account for varied quality reports -- my overall conclusion is that that if I wanted the kind of hassle some Englander purchasers are having I might as well deal with the S mattress companies.  I included in the reply a copy of my original inquiry, stating what sort of mattress we were looking for and asking about the OMI organicpedic Terra.

I got a reply, recommending Englanders 6" medium density core topped with a natura 3" soft latex topper as a good combination to ensure that "the softness that people are complaining about is not an issue" and saying that "if you must have an all Talalay mattress Natura makes several mattresses that would work for your mother.

From this I conclude

#1 the person doing their email is incapable of understanding that Mom *likes* a very soft mattress.

#2 either there is something dreadful about OMI Organicpedic mattresses, or else for some reason they don't want to sell them, even though they feature them on their website. (I could understand a reply that said "The Terra has these advantages, or a more economical way to get a similar feeling mattress might be . . . " but their replies have just ignored my Terra inquiries.

I'm beginning to consider also #3 -- there's something odd about this business -- as, while their earlier responses have sounded professional -- even if they did persist in pushing Englanders and ignoring my Terra inquiries -- I received a message from them a couple of days ago, quoting my earlier messages and saying, " Im am out " 

I've no idea what that means.  I wish I could email a different person and find out if their reluctance to talk about the organicpedic is store policy or just a property of someone who is perhaps is in a contest to sell the most Englanders or who gets more commission for selling Englanders -- but I don't know how to achieve that.  And if for whatever reason they don't want to sell organicpedics than I'd be better off to look elsewhere, as I can't get legitimate organicpedic vs. other brand comparison advice in that case -- and if I bought an organicpedic they didn't want to sell and had trouble they'd be unlikely to be helpful.

Also, while the OMI organicpedic folks' website FAQ references "industry-leading 20-year limited warranty", there's no copy of it on the website, I emailed them and asked if they could point me to a copy of it -- no reply.

So, mostly, I'm just discouraged.

I haven't had time to chase down all the mattress links thoroughly, but at this point, I haven't seen anything that I think is as likely to be something Mom would like as the Terra because:

1) Quality components, and I suspect that the natural talalay latex might wear better on an adjustable bed -- especially with someone who puts a lot of "mileage" on the bed -- because of the more even structure of the talalay process

2) Two sided, flippable -- I think this is likely to prolong quality -- but even if it wasn't, I'd want one that's flippable because she likes having it flipped every time her sheets are changed.

3) Topper piece has two different surfaces and attaches to the main mattress, instead of just lying on it.  The two different surfaces -- in addition to the surface of the regular mattress itself -- would seem to provide easy adjustment of "feel" of the mattress, which seems desirable as her back's problem level varies from time to time.  And having the topper attach seems to me likely to make it work better on an adjustable bed.

4) Phoenix and mate -- two people with different builds who like soft mattresses -- say Terra is feels soft and comfortable.

I'm not at all opposed to finding the same features at a lower price -- but I haven't seen that feature-combination elsewhere.  And while the price difference for the twin size Terra compared to other mattresses is fairly horrifying, it's not as bad as it would be with a larger bed.  And truthfully, *all* the even allegedly decent mattresses seem to have fairly appalling prices -- so it seems to me the more important factor is finding #1 comfort and #2 durable quality.

I wondered how Phoenix and mate like the mattress they'd ordered.  Or if it has arrived?

We're still looking at adjustable bed frames -- need to decide for sure whether to get a new one before placing a mattress order -- but at this point aren't making much progress with ordering a mattress.

Budgy -- don't you think you want to open a branch store in the Big Horn mountains?

JLJ

Quite frankly we both prefer it (feeling wise) over the OMI (or any of the others we tried) but I would think that part of that is just because "I made it" and I knew exactly what I wanted. I know that a lot of people tend to go firmer but for me one of the beauties of latex is it has the ability to support even with a (relatively) soft ild. I like a bit of "sinking in" feeling along with a feeling of being supported and it (for us) does both.

Phoenix

So the thing to do would be to inquire the price of the Barrington super ultra: Phoenix edition?  ;]

How does it lie on your adjustable bed -- that is, if the bed is up and you're not in it, does it bend to lie along the support surface or does it do Stonehenge impressions (lying like a straight stone cap perched on the support points)?

I just tested the combination in various positions to answer your question.

There are of course 3 bends in the adjustable bed base itself. One of them bends to raise the head part and two of them bend to raise the foot part. See diagram here http://www.reverie.com/deluxe.htm

With both head and foot raised to maximum, the mattress "curves" in between bend 1 and 2 while the bend of the base itself is of course more angular. This results in the mattress being about 3" above bend #1 and about 1.5" above bend #2. The bottom of the curve where the mattress rests on the frame is about half way between bend #1 and #2 and it looks well supported (not just "barely touching"). The Reverie goes to 70% at the head so this angle is more extreme than it would be on other types of adjustable beds.

The mattress conforms to bend #3 at the base except you can see that the very edge of the mattress is about 1" above the base. The actual support is coming a few inches "inside" the edge (part of this is because the very edge is "rounded" with the pillowtop) so the pillowtop itself is touching the frame but the mattress cording is slightly above the frame.

With just the head raised to maximum, the differential at bend #1 is just slightly less (maybe 2.5").

With just the head raised to about 1/2 way, the differential at bend #1 (maximum distance between the mattress and base) is about 2".

With just the feet raised, the differential between the mattress and bend 2 is about 1.5" (same as before) but the support at the edge is closer to the end of the base.

In other words, I would have to say that it is nothing like "stonehenge" and that while it's comformity doesn't go all the way into the more angular bends of the base, it seems to conform very well and the end does not "flip up" as I have seen happen with other mattresses.

A slightly thinner mattress would probably conform even better but all of this is without any weight.

Hope this helps

Phoenix