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For those that have followed my story, I recently purchased a vzone Flobed with blended latex. I was about 80-90% happy with it, but I did have more heat issues than I use to on an innerspring, and I did not find an all latex bed totally satisfying. Why not totally satisfying? Hard to say for sure, I think a prefer a slightly plusher feel than all latex provides. However, the vzone is great for reducing pressure points, since you can adjust the firmness of the hips and shoulder (and other) areas seperately. Anyway, a friend of mine recently bought a Sealy Reserve cushion firm. He did not really like it, and went back to to his old mattress after just a few days. He could not return the Sealy (he could exchange but once burned...). So, I made a decision to buy it from him at a discount, return the Flobed, and see if I could make this innerspring work for me. The Sealy has 782 14 gauge coils (queen) and about 3" of Sealy foam, according to US-mattress. Current price at US Mattress would be around $800. Ok, so I got the Sealy and decided to sleep on it as is for a few days to see what it is like. How was it? Not very good. The Sealy foam feels sort of like a stiff memory foam, and as the night went on I sank too deep in the hip area. So, as we all know, the PU foam is basically not very good. Plus it was just as warm, or probably warmer, than the all latex Flobed! So much for innersprings being necessarily cooler. I think the main variables for heat are the top few inches of padding (foam or whatever) plus whatever you put on top of it. Knowing that I could not live with it this way, I pulled out the scapel and cut the top of (originally on just 3 sides, but eventually the whole thing). This actually pretty easy to do. It took a total of about 15 minutes to cut the 3 sides and pull the old foam out. The cover is about 1" thick with the Sealy (PU) foam quilted in. No easy way to get the foam out. Below that were 2 pieces of foam. The top level was about 1.5" thick, convoluted, with about a 2' wide strip of 1/2" memory type foam accross the middle. This was suppose to be the 3 way pressure relief inlay. What a joke! Below that was a 1.5" piece of PU that weighs a total of 5 lbs. That comes out to a density of 1.2! Nice quality Sealy. There are also 3" of firm foam around the edges, so no coils there. That is probably a money saver for them, but it does not really bother me. The was a thin layer of what looks like PU packing material over the coils. I layed directly on this too see how firm the springs feels. The springs do feel fairly firm and supportive by themselves. I did not notice any sagging. Meanwhile, I had orered 2 pieces of 100% natural talalay latex from Rockymountain mattress. 2" of 32 ILD and 1" of 24. It took about 1 1/2 weeks from order to arrival. The latex is made by Latex International and seems high quality. No wierd seems or irregularities. The was about a 2" tear on one side of the 1" which I need to glue. I don't think that is totally unusual. I had a few small tears in the Flobed latex as well. To me the 100% natural seems very similiar to the blended. I am not sure I could tell them apart. In fact, there is no way to know for sure if this really is 100% natural. It does smell a little different, more of a sweet smell and less chemical (which is the way Eagle described it as well). So, I think it is 100% natural. Okay, in goes the 2" latex on the bottom and the softer 1" piece above. I folded the Sealy cover back on top and put on the mattess pad, sheets etc. I decided to lie on it for a while to see how it feels. Definitely felt more supportive than the old foam - no surprise. Still I senses a little lack of support. So, I folded back the Sealy cover, and put the mattress pad, etc. back on. Ahh, better. So, I decided to cut the whole top off, since I was pretty sure I did not want that low density (and not cool either) Sealy foam on the mattress at all. First night sleep was pretty good, but not totally satisfying. In way fairly similiar to the all latex Flobed, but a bit more "springy" (for lack of better word) which I kind of like However, firmer in the shoulders do to the lack of the vzone. I will agree with Jimsocal that if you put enough foam on and innerspring it pretty much feels like an all foam bed - not that is necessarily bad. Heat issues are not gone! Too bad, I guess the only way around that is firmer older style innerspring, water bed, or maybe more layers of wool or some other material. So, I tried adding 1" of 4 lb. mem-cool memory foam (from overstock) to see what that would be like. The feeling was definitely plusher and softer. Feels pretty comfortable, but possibly slightly too soft. I have tried 2 other configurations, putting the soft latex above the memory foam, and moving the soft latex to the bottom, the firmer latex in the middle, and the memory foam on top. The latter configuration is what I have used the last couple of nights. Feels pretty supportive, yet soft and cushy. I have noticed any significant temperature difference with or without the memory foam. Future changes. I am planning to cut out a portion of the firm foam (one half only) at the shoulder lever, and try putting in a softer piece of latex (ordered from foamonline). I am also going to try adding a wool topper to see if that reduces the heat issue and possibly adds some plushness with latex only. Bottom line? Hard to say just yet. I am fairly happy with the current situation, but I would not necessarily better than with the Flobed. The Flobed is certainly simplier to deal with and you can experiment for 90 days. The vzone offered good shoulder pressure relief. The flobed also comes with nice wool zip up cover, which I wouldn'nt mind having. An easier solution for me would probalby have been to return the convoluted layer of the Flobed, and use memory foam or softer latex or something else on the very top layer. I was very happy with the quality and service at Flobeds, got the credit refund after about 2 weeks, and would definitely recommmend them to anyone looking for a latex mattress. Both the springs or 6' of firm latex can provide a good support level. I was hoping springs would sleep cooler, due to breathing down to the coils, but I am afraid most of the heat issues come from having a few inches of dense foam at the top. Link to photos. I will leaver further updates as my situation evolves. Hopefully others can learn from my experience.
This message was modified Feb 5, 2010 by sandman
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What size is your mattress? Are you okay in the hips with the memory foam off? If so, then your best bet would be to try to put in a softer zone under the shoulders in the 3" Overstock latex. Maybe just do the top 1.5" piece. Cut out a 10" piece (about 13" down from the top of the mattress to about 23" down from the top). You can cut out only on 1/2 side if you want, assuming you mainly sleep on one half. Replace that with a 20-24" piece to see how that works. If it is still too firm in the shoulders, then you might need to do that on the lower 1.5" piece. I would try to measure first where you shoulders are when you sleep to make sure you have the right location. I am not sure the best way to cut, since I have not done this yet on my 2" piece. Some people say an electric carving knife or a sharp butcher type knife. |
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sandman wrote: What size is your mattress? Are you okay in the hips with the memory foam off? If so, then your best bet would be to try to put in a softer zone under the shoulders in the 3" Overstock latex. Maybe just do the top 1.5" piece. Cut out a 10" piece (about 13" down from the top of the mattress to about 23" down from the top). You can cut out only on 1/2 side if you want, assuming you mainly sleep on one half. Replace that with a 20-24" piece to see how that works. If it is still too firm in the shoulders, then you might need to do that on the lower 1.5" piece. I would try to measure first where you shoulders are when you sleep to make sure you have the right location. I am not sure the best way to cut, since I have not done this yet on my 2" piece. Some people say an electric carving knife or a sharp butcher type knife. What ILD did you have on your Flobed layers? Yes 24ILD is fine for the shoulders, but I think not for the hip, tried it and didn't like it. Just not sure 32 is a big enough step up. Is there really that much different in the two? Did you have both before to compare? I think I would be fine to get rid of the memory foam if I used the 24ILD at the shoulders, I just have to find the right ILD for the hip. On the zoning picture on Royalpedic I think your link showed the zoning started at the ribcage to the hip area. Is that how Flobed was too? Their picture doesn't show the person like the Royalpedic shows, and the zoning is a little hard to follow, different sizes and all. Hope you take pictures of your zoning and tell us what ILD you are happy with. |
| I had 32 ILD under the hips and 20 under the shoulders. That was covered by a softer convoluted piece of latex. |
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I updated some photos in my other thread. I added a zone at the shoulder level with a custom piece from foamonline. It is definitely not the quality of the Latex International that came from Rockymountainmattress. However, it has added a bit of improvement by reducing shoulder pressure when side sleeping (my main position). So, I am going to stick with it for now. I hated to cut into my nice 2" piece of latex, but I definitely prefer a little softer in the shoulders. The Walmart wool filled topper (about 1.25" thick) has seemed to help a bit with temperature control. With it, the feeling is more warm as opposed to hot. However, the past several days have been pretty cool, so we'll have to see how it works in a bit warmer weather. Overall, using just the 3" of latex (2" 32, 1" 24) feels a bit too hard on my hips. I am going to try with the 1" of mem-cool memory foam again, now that I have the wool topper. In brief testing it feels pretty good, still pretty firm. I have not slept on that configuration yet, so I will update after I have tried it. So, I seem to have made some progress and may be getting close to the 85%+ satisfaction range, that is about all we can hope for. If the memory foam does not provide the support, I may consider adding 1 more inch of latex. I will probably try folding the 1" 24ILD in half to see how that feels. As they say, it is a game of inches.... |
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Very interesting Sandman. Did you sleep on it for more than one night? What ILD are the pieces again?. Yes when I cut into my pieces of latex it bothered me, but you do what you have to do. Maybe more 24ILD might help? I added the 24ILD back in the mix and my shoulders are very happy, but hips NO. Which makes me thick I need to zone the hips for firmer or softer??? It is an experiement isn't it? So RM latex is over 2"? The wool topper looks nicer than I would think Wal-mart toppers would be LOL. Does it make it firmer though? |
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Leo3 wrote: Very interesting Sandman. Did you sleep on it for more than one night? What ILD are the pieces again?. Yes when I cut into my pieces of latex it bothered me, but you do what you have to do. Maybe more 24ILD might help? I added the 24ILD back in the mix and my shoulders are very happy, but hips NO. Which makes me thick I need to zone the hips for firmer or softer??? It is an experiement isn't it? So RM latex is over 2"? The wool topper looks nicer than I would think Wal-mart toppers would be LOL. Does it make it firmer though? The wool topper is also quilted, so hopefully the wool will not move around or lump up. I don't think it will. I ordered 2 pieces from foamonline. 1 19ILD and 1 24ILD. However, I think they are softer than that, mayber because it is lower quality latex. So, I am using the 24 for now. The RM is over 2", probably about 2.2", but I have not measured precisely. The wool topper might make it a bit firmer. Interstingly though, with just the 3" of latex it seem slightly more comfortable with the topper than without. Maybe because it is adding more depth above the springs? Not sure, but it probably means I more inch will be okay. Not sure if 24 will be the right firmness, but probably close. Folding the 1" 24 piece in half should give me a good test. It is hard to sleep that way, but I will fold the 1" mem foam on the other side to help balance out. First I am going to try with the 1" piece of memory foam I have to see how that works out. Yes, it is an experiment, but one I hope to end soon! I think I am within 1" of getting it good enough, if it isn't already. |
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How is the side sleeping going with the new setup? As I have said my setup my shoulders are happy, but the hips are not. Can you tell me when you had your Vzone what ILD you used on your hips for side sleeping that you felt no pain? |
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Leo3 wrote: How is the side sleeping going with the new setup? As I have said my setup my shoulders are happy, but the hips are not. Can you tell me when you had your Vzone what ILD you used on your hips for side sleeping that you felt no pain?
I used 1" of 4lb. memory foam last night over the 1" of 24 and 2" of 32 latex (zoned softer at shoulder only). 1" wool topper as well. I was worried that might be too soft, but it really wasn't. I think the wool topper does make the feel slightly firmer and less hot. This setup feels pretty comfortable. Maybe slight firmness at hip level, but no pain. A little neck stiffness, because I now might need a slightly thinner pillow with the softer shoulders. I am going to adjust that slightly tonight. Every change seems to affect something else... When I used the vzone, I found the medium (28) a bit soft and felt like I was sinking in too much. So, settled on firm (32). At times that felt a bit hard on the hips, but it did not cause pain or back issues. That was covered by the 2" Flobed convoluted layer (28 ILD, but effectively about 14 due to convoluted nature feature), and the somewhat thick flobed mattress cover. Everyone is different though, so hard to say what will work for you. The vzone comes softer in the hips than the legs and ribs, so I assume some people want it softer in the hips. In the end, I did not. Men and women might be different on that. |
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Sandman, It sounds like you may have your mattress fixed to your liking. Did you have any issues before the mattresses? i.e. hip pain, shoulder rotator cuff pain, etc. Are you generally not in pain. The reason I ask is you may be one of those that don't have any pre-existing conditions, as in maturer persons. Yes, women need more support for the hips (me); I think men may (I say may) suffer more back problems. Thanks, I may see about a 32ILD for the hips. I think my setup is too soft for the hips. I have 20ILD (1"), then 24ILD (1 1/2"), then 3" (1 1/2" each) of overstock latex which I believe is natural latex 32ish. Thanks for your update and info. |
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Leo3 wrote: Sandman, It sounds like you may have your mattress fixed to your liking. Did you have any issues before the mattresses? i.e. hip pain, shoulder rotator cuff pain, etc. Are you generally not in pain. The reason I ask is you may be one of those that don't have any pre-existing conditions, as in maturer persons. Yes, women need more support for the hips (me); I think men may (I say may) suffer more back problems. Thanks, I may see about a 32ILD for the hips. I think my setup is too soft for the hips. I have 20ILD (1"), then 24ILD (1 1/2"), then 3" (1 1/2" each) of overstock latex which I believe is natural latex 32ish. Thanks for your update and info.
I did not have any consistant pain before (or now). For several years I used 2" of memory foam over a pretty firm old style Sealy Posterpedic. It was okay, but not the most comfortable. I felt like I was bottoming out through the memory foam to the firm mattress in the hip area. That would cause me to slump over a bit to be more on my stomach. Occassionaly that caused me to get a sore back. My shoulders felt some pressure as well. So, no I don't have a pre-existing condition that causes many issues. I am just trying to find a comfortable surface that maximizes my sleep, without causing any new source of pain. If I had to do it over, I probably would have just tried some latex toppers (possibly with a zone) over the old Sealy. However, I did not really know about latex when I start this process, and gave the old mattress away before I figured out that they don't make them like they use to. I don't know if I ever slept in a mattress I totally loved. Usually there is some small issue. The current configuration and the Flobed were the 2 best than I can recall. Maybe there was some hotel mattress out there that I have now forgotten about that I liked more. Hard to say what would work for you. If too soft in hips then I might try removing one of the 2 top layers. If that works for hips but not shoulder. Then the only solution might be to put in a softer zone in the shoulder in the 32 base level(s). |