Mattress Forum

For the third option, would something like this one be in the neighborhood: http://www.rockymountainmattress.com/cottonwood-9-p-33.html How can I tell how firm or plush feeling something like that is?  I did like the feel of the tempurpedics, but didn't spend as much time due to the price.

Holder Bedding lists their all latex mattresses at around $1400 and I really haven't seen anything below that price, at least not premade beds.  I did like the feel of the firmer latex mattress at the store.  It was a "good different' compared to the individual coils that liked.

Would telling one of these small shops that I want "An innerspring mattress ... 2 sided ... with latex on both sides and good quilting material,"  yeild an unreasonable price?  Would that be something I want to do, or should I choose from what's offered?

My current mattress is probably past being worn out, but I haven't replaced it mainly due to the confusion of it all.

If you are comfortable with memory foam and know that you really like it, then I would go there as well ... but I'm not ... even though I do like the feel of certain combinations (mentioned in another thread).

So the comparison would really be between latex and memory foam in terms of what feels good to you..... just to simplify matters ... Unless of course you want to go in the direction of an "old style mattress" with cotton, horsehair, wool etc over springs ... and that's the topic of another thread here.

The link to Rocky Mountain is a memory foam mattress with no latex in it. 4lb memory foam over 2 different densities of HR foam (in the upgrade). Good for what it is but again you need to be sure you like memory foam if you choose to go in that direction. I don't have any experience with the Bayer memory foam so I don't know it's specific qualities. I personally believe that Foamex memory foam that uses VPF technology is the "best" but that there are other very good memory foams as well ... including Tempurpedic of course.

The feeling of memory foam has been described as more sleeping in the mattress while latex is more sleeping on the mattress.

This feeling of sleeping in the mattress can be lessened with different toppers and/or different types of memory foam (some are less "visco elastic" than others). You can see examples of this in many threads here.

Memory foam and latex have similar pressure relieving abilities although the edge here would go to memory foam.

Latex has a much better ability to support which is why memory foam requires layers of HR polyfoam underneath it.

Latex is much more durable ... you can expect it to last much longer than even 5 lb memory foam

Some people have trouble with the smell and/or outgassing of memory foam (I am one of them) but there is a wide range of variance here between different types of memory foam. Latex also has a smell in some cases but it is much different and seems to be much milder (it's been described as a sweet smell) and less offensive to most people. Both go away although some memory foams take a while.

Some people sleep hot with memory foam (it is much less open celled than latex) and again I am one of them but there are also much more breathable memory foams available now (Foamex Aerus for example). You can also alleviate this to some extent by the layers and materials you put over the memory foam, but this changes the feel of the memory foam as well. Some people also find that they sleep hotter with any foam including latex although this is much more rare. Anything that "cradles" you or that you sink into can sleep hotter than something that doesn't for some people.

Depending on the type and "memory" of the memory foam you are using ... and depending on it's temperature sensitivity ... some people have difficulty changing position when they sleep. The foam in the new position is harder and has to "melt" into the new position. Again depending on the temperature sensitivity of some types of memory foam ... some people find it gets hard or changes it's quality in a cool or cold room.

My best suggestion is to go with a feeling you know you like using materials you can trust. If you are seriously considering memory foam, try it out enough to know for sure that you like it. It is very different from other types of mattress and this can be a good thing or not depending on individual taste and comfort. Latex is closer to the feeling of a traditional or typical mattress than memory foam is.

There are other considerations including how important natural materials are to you that may affect your decision. Latex can be "all natural" while memory foam can't. Personally, I like natural materials, and I believe that in many cases they are superior, but I'm not a purist and won't pay too much more for them.

Your question would be well worth asking a manufacturer. I asked similar questions (usually though about all latex mattresses) a lot. I would certainly make a point of phoning Indiana Mattress and talk to them as well if you haven't already. If you do talk to holder bedding ... ask the old guy there if he has mailed me my information. He'll probably be very surprised that a random conversation on the phone has any connection to a walk in customer lol.

I'm sure (and I hope) you will get many other different and equally valid opinions on the comparison between latex and memory foam.

Phoenix

I just wanted to ad one thing that Phoenix touched on, and that is that latex does indeed last longer, both as a whole mattress and as part of the upholstry layers.  Not only do I have some experience in this industry but I grew up in mattress factories ( My father was in the industry for 55 years).  Any way about 3 years ago I brought a very respected line of latex mattresses on my store - they are great! - in part I also wanted to replace my father's latex set I knew he had had for some time.  He later told me that the set I gave him was the third set of latex he has had since 1947 - the other two were also latex - that averages out to about 30 years of service for the previous two sets.  The thing is there really was not much wrong with the set I took away from his home other than age!

I have never slept on a latex core mattress but the set I have now is a tempered steel pocketed coil with 3" of latex (24 ILD Talalay) over 2" of visco (4.7 lbs. Foamex) with a fortrell - silk - cashmere blend set up as a fillbox which has been tufted on a 18" square pattern and it is heaven!  Sorry they don't do the fillbox any more - just too much labor cost!

Thanks for reading...

Gunman

Not much typing in this one :)

Your mattress sounds wonderful.

Phoenix

The only double sided mattress was the firm one, and he didn't have any all Latex beds, just the Charleston Euro Top that had a layer of latex on top.  The owner guy said he personally didn't much care for latex, nor its cost, so he choses not to carry them.  He had the Jamestown firm, plush, and pillowtop models for about $525 for the sets.

Honestly, any of them felt better than what I have now!  I was sorta liking something between the pillowtop and plush that he had.  But none really sold me I guess.

Failing that, I would either

1. Widen your search a bit to neighboring states and then do most of the work on the phone before you take any trips.

or

2. Go to local mattress stores and lay on mattresses that are mostly latex (Sealy springfree if you can find them or embody, Serta pure response, or Simmons natural care  and natural care elite, or any other latex mattress that they carry that has mostly latex in the top). Do most of the work on the phone so you know where you want to go first. Once you're there, you want to pay attention to how the top few inches of latex feel, how supportive the mattress is, and how it provides the support (poly core, latex, springs etc). Once you have found the combination for the mattress you would buy if price wasn't an object, and you have the specs of that mattress, now you are ready to talk to manufacturers that are further away and talk to them about duplicating the feel of a mattress like that for you. The simpler (fewer layers) the mattress has, the easier it is to duplicate. Many of them have experience in doing this. This will tell you if you trust both them and your own judgement enough to have them ship a mattress to you without actually laying on it.

Phoenix

There are different methods for joining pocket coils together...mass produced ones are usually placed in polyester shells and glued together.  Your best pocket coils are tied together by hand and placed inside a breathable flexible cotton shell, these are also far less likely to migrate.  You can also nest them inline or in a honeycomb pattern. 

Bonnell springs are actually not the cheapest type of spring to make....continuous coils are by a significant margin.  This is actually why they were used in mattresses in the first place, was to cut cost...it is much faster to produce them because you can produce an entire row or column of springs before cutting wire.  A good quality bonnell spring or offset spring is actually more expensive to produce than a cheap pocket spring (even the ones made in the USA). 

And thanks especially for the info about the pocket coils. If I was going in the direction of springs it would almost certainly be pocket coils and for anyone going in that direction I think it would be really important to know how they were made since they can "go wrong" more easily than other types if they are not well designed and constructed.

From what I understand, the Simmons coils are untempered. Just to add to the information in this thread, what are your thoughts about untempered coils vs tempered coils.

Phoenix

If I wanted to get a 3" or so latex topper, do the specs of something like the Bowles Tranquil II sound decent?  http://www.bowlesmattress.com/html/nightrest.htm 13.5 gauge 5 turn 390 count Bonell springs.  I've no idea if the cost is even close to being in my budget, just trying to apply what I've learned ;)

I'm also warming up to the idea of the DIY latex mattress.  I've read a few threads about it and it doesn't sound as overwhelming as it did at first.

Technically speaking Simmons pocket coils are tempered (hardened).  They have a high carbon content, anytime you add carbon to steel it becomes stronger (albeit also more brittle).  They are just not heat treated or electrically treated like the traditional tempering process.  Simmons pocket springs are made in house (atleast up until recently...maybe things have changed) so the coils get made to a 9 or 10" height and then get pre-compressed into an 8" pocket.  Most mass produced springs are made in China or in the USA but not in the same factory the finished mattresses are constructed, the springs are tempered, get compressed to less than 10% of the original height placed into sealed containers and shipped long distance on boat or train to their final warehouse destination where the coils are released and then used to build a mattress. 

In reality the tempering is likely an extra precaution due to the ridiculous abuse that the shipping methods cause to the steel.  I highly doubt the finished product is any better by the time it gets into the end users home.