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Copied from another thread so sjeanine's journey was easier to follow instead of mixed in with other stuff.... sjeanine wrote: Sorry, I see by my last posted reply that I didnt post it right so trying again! Phoenix, I'm wondering who/where you finally bought your mattress layers from?? Can you exchange them at any time if you want to? I am wanting to do the same as you did...building the layers but, not sure where/who to buy them from?! I'm finding the whole mattress buying thing as stressful as buying a car and just wish I could be done but want to make sure I am getting the right fit the first time! What size did you get and approx how much did it cost you? Did you already have a foundation to put the layers on and if so, where did you get that? Thanks so much for sharing. I hope I can find something I'm as happy with as you seem! ; ) sjeanine Phoenix wrote: sjeanine, I had enough confidence from my own personal experiences and research to believe that I could get it right the first time as shipping costs for a whole mattress would really exclude comfort exchanges. I would have had to use toppers to make any changes and in a softer mattress that is more difficult. It is a manufactured mattress as opposed to a zip cover (which I wanted as it was "tighter" and reinforced for the adjustable bed). If a comfort exchange would have been more important to me I would have certainly had many options outside of this one and it was a little "riskier" than other options I had but I believed it was worth it to get what I wanted. They ship anywhere in the US (my shipping was from Texas to Washington State near Tacoma). Phoenix
sjeanine wrote: Thanks for telling me about the "all" button! I found your reply....sorry... Is there any way that you could send me a pic or post a pic of your mattress selection? Did you tell them the specs you wanted or was it something they already had made up that you could choose? I live in IL and just dont have a clue who to buy from. I spent some time at the mall yesterday with a guy who sold tempurpedics and I told him I really thought I wanted to go with Latex, from what all I've read....He had a few "Nature's Rest" Latex beds but they were quite pricey and he couldnt really tell me anything about them. He said he had them for people like me who wanted a natural bed but that he really thought I should buy a tempurpedic! Ugh! The Tempurpedic Cloud did feel wonderful but, I just really want to find something with less chemicals...I already have asthma and cough most of the night as it is and I liked the thought of something all natural, like latex. sjeanine
Phoenix wrote: Yes, They and most manufacturers have mattresses that are "standard" configurations but mine was built to my own specs. For example I could have chosen 2.5" outer layers instead of 3 or changed the core or any layer to any ILD I wanted. Most will also have a choice of ticking and what goes in the quilting (wool, latex, cotton etc) as well. I finally got around to putting a few pictures on Flickr which I understand is needed to post pictures to the forum so as soon as I read how to do that I'll post a few pictures here (and in the other thread about the Natura pad). Natures Rest is "sort of" latex in some of their models but even their top end has too much poly in the comfort layers for me and as you said they are way too expensive for what you get. Most of the bigger brands are like this when it comes to their "latex" mattresses. Memory foam is a really tricky thing and the only good thing about Tempur-pedic IMO is that it is a known quantity. Unfortunately "known" means a price that is hard to justify and also comes with the negatives of memory foam. I like the feel of memory foam in certain layers in a mattress (my favorite is a thin layer of latex over memory foam over latex similar to the high end NXG 575) but the negatives are just too many for me when it comes to memory foam. If I did go in that direction ... there are enough "known" alternatives now (along with many unknown alternatives) that I would never go in the direction of Tempur and pay their price. Phoenix
sjeanine wrote: Phoenix, Thanks for the pics! I woke up this morning with my shoulders killing me cuz of my mattress so I need to make a decision soon....just afraid of making the wrong one and being stuck with it! You did have an advantage in that you were able to go to the store to talk to someone and try the beds out....whereas I am trying to decide over an internet...makes it tough! Plus, we really dont have the money to buy a new mattress....will have to finance it but, it's a necessity since the dr told me if I dont find a better mattress soon, I could end up with permanant nerve damage in my shoulders. Ugh! Thanks again. SJ
Phoenix wrote: "You did have an advantage in that you were able to go to the store to talk to someone and try the beds out" There aren't any mattress stores near you that sell latex mattress or at least mattresses with latex in the top layers? As you know I didn't try this mattress before I bought it but I would never have considered buying it sight unseen like I did unless I had tried other latex mattresses first to get an idea of the specs that worked for me. Are you sure there are really no mattress stores near you? If there isn't ... I would definitely get a mattress that would allow you a comfort exchange at low shipping cost. A mattress that is a "manufactured unit" would really only be suitable for someone who was reasonably sure what they needed or had tried it first. Phoenix
sjeanine wrote: The only place I could find with any latex mattresses, after an exhausting search was right at our local mall....but, they only had the Tempurpedics and Natures Rest so, I did lay on them and really liked them but not willing to pay $3,000...plus, after seeing their reviews online, wasnt wanting to buy a Nature's Rest. I am 5'4" tall and weigh 125 and my dh is 5'9" and weighs about 165. I have some RA going on and my shoulders bother me a LOT at night and I also have a bad neck that causes me a lot of headaches...My dh is fine with sleeping on a rock but I have to find something else....We currently have a 10 yr old Sealy Posturepedic Inclination Plush Pillow Top....Seems like ten years ago it felt great but it sure causes me pain now! sjeanine
Phoenix wrote: The Tempurpedic is not a latex mattress and is VERY different from latex. They are polar opposites. The natures rest has some latex in it but also lots of poly so it wouldn't really give you a fair comparison. What city do you live in? I would really NOT buy a manufactured mattress like I did unless you had some experience laying on latex mattresses. Phoenix
sjeanine wrote: I live near the Quad Cities (Moline, Rock Island, IL and Davenport and Bettendorf, IA)....small town on the outskirts. I sent you a pm... Phoenix wrote: You have LOTS of choices to test mattresses around you. In a quick search I found many including the few I listed here. I would go to Lebeda first as I know they make latex mattresses at decent prices. I stopped looking because there were so many so I would do a little internet research and make a few calls and then go and lay on some latex BEFORE you buy anything :) http://www.lebeda.com/ They are a manufacturer (like the one I got mine from) and they make latex mattresses at good prices. http://www.ashleyfurniturehomestore.com/ Ashley sleep (check to see if there is poly in these in the comfort layers) http://www.lifestylesfurniture.com/catalog.php3?category=0000001190 Dormia http://www.furniturerow.com/DenverMattressCo/ItemType/Queen%20Mattress%20Set/ Aspen and Snowmass http://lwbeddingqc.com/about_us.htm Another custom manufacturers. Check to see if they make latex mattresses Phoenix
sjeanine wrote: Phoenix, Thanks! I guess when I did my research, I was just Googling latex mattresses and nothing would come up for my area...as far as furniture stores carrying them. I'm not very pc literate... I will go and check out Lebeda today. Funny cuz the guy at the mall told me "they" were the only ones in the area who carried latex! What kinds of questions should I be asking? I mean, just laying on it isnt going to make me decide cuz you cant tell that quickly how it will feel over a few months of laying on it....I dont want anything with poly or chemicals in it cuz I have bad allergies as it is. We removed the carpeting from our bedroom and put an air purifier in just to help out. Phoenix wrote: "What kinds of questions should I be asking?" Here's the quick version. 1. First go and flop around on some mattresses ... any mattresses ... to find out what kind of overall feel you like ... plush to firm. This part doesn't have to be latex. 2. Next spend some time on ones that are "in the range" with at least 3" of latex in the very top (preferably all latex and at MOST 1" of poly) in all your sleeping positions to see if you can feel any pressure points. Make sure you use a suitable pillow when you do this. Ask for the specs of the ones that don't give you any pressure points. 3. Next spend some time on the ones that don't give you any pressure problems and check for spinal alignment on each of them in all your sleeping positions. This step too should be with either latex in the top (if you are considering this as an option) or all latex if that is what you are looking for. It helps if someone can help you here. When you're on your side your spine should be straight (a yardstick can help here) and when you're on your back there should be no "gaps" between the more recessed parts of your body (like the small of your back) and the mattress. Your spine should be in the same position here as when you are standing up straight with good posture so that no parts are sinking in too far or too little. 4. Make sure you get the exact specs of any mattresses that are close so that you can find out the ILD (softness/firmness) of the latex and the layering (the ILD aned thickness of each layer) that works for you. If the salesperson can't or won't give them to you exactly, then write down the brand and model and either look it up on the internet or post here if you need help. 5. DO NOT BUY anything while you are testing mattresses out no matter what kind of a deal you are offered. The stores or manufacturers that depend on phony sales and pressure are usually not so confident in their product they offer. Most of the better choices can be bought anytime at a good price. The most important part is to get to know what works for you. Then and only then are you ready to consider what to buy. Phoenix
sjeanine wrote: Thanks again, Phoenix! I'm heading out now to go mattress shopping and will report later what I found out. I'm headed to L&W, Lebeda and Ashley's! ; ) I called L&W to find out where they're located first cuz I'd never heard of them so I can tell you already that he (the owner) said he makes all his own mattresses except the latex. He said he gets those from Latex International?? He said the two types he has are Dunlop and they're 100percent natural latex. He said one has ilds of 36-38 and the other is around 40. He does not do layering cuz it comes this way to him. He said they're two sided so should be flipped after about a year and he sells them for $1600 something. Shouldn't there be layers of latex/foam?? I'm confused about it being one big slab...I forgot to ask how many inches thick it was but I'll find out when I go there in a bit. sjeanine
Phoenix wrote: Latex international is a high quality latex manufacturer that most of North America gets their quality latex from. They mostly supply latex that's made in a way called Talalay but they and others also use a method called Dunlop which is a little firmer and less "bouncy". Most people use a layering scheme when they buy a latex mattress but having said that there may be some where a single layer is perfect. This is less likely though unless you like a firm mattress with less "give" on the top. Any experience though will help you come to know what is right for you. Good luck Phoenix
sjeanine wrote: Phoenix,
Hi, I'm back from my shopping and here's what I found out today: Lebeda Matress: Had two beds with 4" of Dunlopia Latex (that's what the lady said) on top of 805 coil springs...all inside the quilted lining....one bed had a bamboo top and the other had wool she said....One of them had some sort of extra support in the center top part...at least that's where she was showing it with her hands....She said her husband had a metal rod in his back and he loved the one bed with the extra support....I wasnt prepared to see these since I didnt know they made latex beds with springs...but, they were both extremely comfortable....both were around the same price of $2500. When I asked if she had any just plain latex mattresses, without any springs inside, she showed me another mattress that she said was 8" of latex only. It was sitting on box springs and was $1500 for a queen set but didnt feel quite as comfortable as the other two. She said it was their most popular bed that sold to most chiro's and other doctors. The ild of all three mattresses, according to her, was 33. When I asked to see the specs, she was quite guarded and wouldnt let me see them but was reading it to me....I cant remember any of it now....When I asked where the latex came from, she said Cedar Rapids, Iowa....Oh, the mattresses could not be flipped cuz of the springs...except for the $1500 set...it was 2 sided. L & W Mattress: This was a little "ma and pop" shop...his words! lol But, he did have one latex bed on display. It was 6" of latex from Latex International with an ild of 36 or 38...cant remember for sure which it was but it definitely felt stiffer than the ones at Lebeda and I told him that I was afraid the hardness on my shoulders would cause problems and he said he could add another smaller layer of maybe 1" of latex on both sides that was a smaller ild...like a pillow he said, then add wool before he sewed on the bamboo cover but....said he'd have to get back with me Friday about how much more it would cost to do that. His warrantee was 10 years straight and then 10 yrs pro-rated and he said if it was not right, he'd make it right by adding or taking away whatever I needed him to in order to make it comfortable for me. I liked this but a bit worried about what it will cost and also worried about how hard/stiff it was anyway. He said the mattress sits on a 85 coil spring box springs....thought that seemed like not very many springs for a queen...plus, I thought latex beds were supposed to be on a wooden/slat frame....what do you think?? Man, I still feel lost and overwhelmed here!
I looked for the Ashley store but couldnt find it....a Slumberland was where it used to be...they said Ashley went out of business but the guy in Slumberland showed me what he had in the way of Latex.....It was a Simmons latex mattress that was on clearance on a different companies box springs...cant remember the name of it. He said it was an unmatched set that used to be $1400 on clearance for $898 and with no warranty. Didnt think this sounded to good....Then he directed me to some other bedding called NxG memory foam....I have no idea what was in it. He just said it was new and much better than tempurpedic cuz it had no hot issues or sinking in problems....made by Simmons. It felt nice too but not sure what is in it so just thanked him and left.
Lastly, I seen a site today that looked interesting called Arizona Premium Mattress Co...They had some latex mattesses and other eco friendly type mattresses that had a new type of eco friendly memory foam....have you heard of them? I wondered what you thought of their mattresses? That was today's looking...what do you think?? Any advice/suggestions at this point?? Thanks... sjeanine
Phoenix wrote: OK lets take this one step at a time through the 5 steps I posted earlier. 1. Flopping ... Did you flop and lay on a bunch of mattresses of any kind (this part doesn't have to be latex). What overall feel did you like best? 2. Pressure relief ... Which mattresses with latex in the top (doesn't matter what is under this top part in this step ... even springs are fine) did you lie on for a while and find that you didn't have pressure points. What was the ILD or softness of the top layer of latex in these? See below. 3. Not sure if you got this far. Did you get as far as testing any mattresses for how they aligned your spine? Lebeda ... They have 5 mattresses with latex in the top that they emailed me the specs for when I was doing my research. 4 of them are talalay latex over something else (dunlop or poly) and one of them is pure dunlop. They are called the Grand Teton, The Acadia, The Shenandoah, The Yosemite, and The Acadia. From what you've said they also have 2 with latex over springs which I don't have specs for. What we need to know is which of these 5 did you like in step 2? I have the specs so you don't need to ask with these (although it would be good practice). I also would need to know which of the two (if any) spring models worked for you in step 2 and what were the specs of the top latex layer in these (thickness and softness). Your questions here and your experiences as they relate to specific mattresses and models are what we need now. L&W ... I thought that they would be too firm. I would wait until he confirms how much it would cost to add at least 2" of softer latex to each side before I went any further here since you would need them on the showroom floor at this testing stage. Slumberland ... They have some mattresses called Simmons natural care that have latex in the top (with some poly). Did you lie on any of these? If you did how did they go with step 1 and 2 and what were the models you liked. Dunlop (Dunlopia) is one of the 2 ways that latex is made. Latex is often seen over springs and over poly as well. I am very familiar with Arizon premium mattress company and I've mentioned them favorably in several threads. For now though ... since you don't live in Arizona ... It's the lay on bed experience and the specific information that comes from that through your specific questions that we need before I would consider a manufacturer that can build to your specs. Next step is to "fill in the blanks" from your experiences today. This may involve checking out some of the mattresses you lay on and testing for specific things in step 2 (pressure) and step 3 (keeping your spine straight) and then getting the specs of the ones that fit for you. I would also broaden your search to a few other stores (there are lots around you) but FIRST phone them and ask them if they have any all latex mattresses with less than 1" of poly on top and/or if they have any mattresses with at least 3" of latex on top of something else. If they don't have this they aren't worth going to. Don't forget that we are in testing stage and the goal here is to find out what works ... not what to buy. Deciding what to buy and looking at price is the very last step and really not important at his point. If a mattress has latex in the top or is all latex then it is your plaground and research lab ... no matter what it costs. NXG is memory foam and not something I would consider adding to the mix at this point. Lets keep it to latex and latex over something else for now. Phoenix sjeanine wrote: OK lets take this one step at a time through the 5 steps I posted earlier. 1. Flopping ... Did you flop and lay on a bunch of mattresses of any kind (this part doesn't have to be latex). No, just laid on three latex mattresses since that was what I was after. What overall feel did you like best? Yes, I laid on the "Reve" for $2399...which had springs so it could not be flipped but it felt the most comfortable one to me, at Lebeda. She said it was 4" of Dunlopia latex on 805 springs and 33 ild. I also laid on the $1500 33 ild 8" pure dunlopia latex...had a bamboo ticking...it was ok but felt firmer than the 4" on springs....weird. 2. Pressure relief ... Which mattresses with latex in the top (doesn't matter what is under this top part in this step ... even springs are fine) did you lie on for a while and find that you didn't have pressure points. What was the ILD or softness of the top layer of latex in these? See below. 33 ild on all the Lebeda's that she showed me in the store. She said that was all she had in latex. The one latex mattress at the LW Bedding was stiff and hurt my shoulder a bit when I layed on it and the owner told me that all mattresses are going to hurt your shoulders if you lie on them long enough on your sides....The Reve at Lebeda felt the softest and had the least pressure points to my shoulder but still could've been softer I think for me.... 3. Not sure if you got this far. Did you get as far as testing any mattresses for how they aligned your spine? I asked my son, age 11, if my spine looked straight but he wasnt sure...the manager at lebeda said it did...of course she would....and so did the guy at LW Bedding. I didnt lay on any of the mattresses at Slumberland. The sales person didnt seem very willing to talk about specs and I didnt think he seemed to knowledgeable. Lebeda ... They have 5 mattresses with latex in the top that they emailed me the specs for when I was doing my research. 4 of them are talalay latex over something else (dunlop or poly) and one of them is pure dunlop. They are called the Grand Teton, The Acadia, The Shenandoah, The Yosemite, and The Acadia. From what you've said they also have 2 with latex over springs which I don't have specs for. What we need to know is which of these 5 did you like in step 2? Hmmm, maybe I better go back again and see if there was some other beds she didnt show me but I did ask if that was all the latex beds she had and she said yes. I have the specs so you don't need to ask with these (although it would be good practice). I also would need to know which of the two (if any) spring models worked for you in step 2 and how thick and what were the specs of the top latex layer in these (thickness and softness). Your questions here and your experiences as they relate to specific mattresses and models are what we need now. Reve was 4" of dunlopia over springs and it felt the best to me but still a little pressure on my shoulder....it was 33 ild. L&W ... I thought that they would be too firm. I would wait until he confirms how much it would cost to add at least 2" of softer latex to each side before I went any further here since you would need them on the showroom floor at this testing stage. Ok, thanks.). Slumberland ... They have some mattresses called Simmons natural care that have latex in the top (with some poly). Did you lie on any of these? If you did how did they go with step 1 and 2 and what were the models you liked. No, I was only shown the one latex Simmons on clearance and then that other memory foam...He said it was all they had and I did not lay on either of them. Dunlop (Dunlopia) is one of the 2 ways that latex is made. Latex is often seen over springs and over poly as well. I am very familiar with Arizon premium mattress company and I've mentioned them favorably in several threads. For now though ... since you don't live in Arizona ... It's the lay on bed experience and the specific information that comes from that through your specific questions that we need before I would consider a manufacturer that can build to your specs. Ok, I can go to Denver Mattress in Davenport, Iowa tommorrow or Friday probably and see what they have. But, online I seen their specs showed the Snowqueen, or some name like that, had some sort of PU foam...what is that?? I just dont want any chemicals.... Next step is to "fill in the blanks" from your experiences today. This may involve checking out some of the mattresses you lay on and testing for specific things in step 2 (pressure) and step 3 (keeping your spine straight) and then getting the specs of the ones that fit for you. I would also broaden your search to a few other stores (there are lots around you) but FIRST phone them and ask them if they have any all latex mattresses with less than 1" of poly on top and/or if they have any mattresses with at least 3" of latex on top of something else. If they don't have this they aren't worth going to. Ok, will do....will go out again tomorrow and Friday...possibly hitting up Lebeda again...and Denver Mattress Co. NXG is memory foam and not something I would consider adding to the mix at this point. Lets keep it to latex and latex over something else for now. K...thanks Phoenix...I'll report back when I learn more! ; ) Phoenix
Phoenix wrote: Just to be a little more specific here ... I would do a little more prelim research on the phone before you go out again. The specs of the mattresses you lay on that you haven't alread menioned and finding out if they have the models they told me they did can be done on the phone before you go there. Finding out which other stores have latex mattresses can also be done at home. The more you can do on the phone the more fun and the less frustrating and confusing going to stores will be. I think you may be sort of "mixing up steps". Keep each one separate for now so on each mattress you lay on you are looking for one thing at a time specifically. Step 1. is about overall feel. Softness, bounciness, plushness, and just the ahhh feeling. This tells us a bit about the overall construction you may like. In this step it makes absolutely no difference what mattresses you try or even if they have any latex in them ... it only matters that you know the make and model of the ones you liked and whether they felt plush, firm, bouncy, and all the other "feelings" that come to mind as you flop, lay, and roll around on them. It's just about an overall feel that you like. Step 2 is specifically about finding out about a mattresses ability to relieve pressure. We want to know what kind of top layers work for you here. A mattress with an inch or less of poly in the top is still very helpful here since we are not thinking about actually buying anything you are "testing" for now ... only gathering information about what fits your needs. Step 3 is about testing the mattresses that worked for you in step 2 for support and spinal alignment. It's still not about buying anything but about finding what type of deep support works for you. Even latex on springs and then knowing what kind of springs worked would help to know what kind of latex would give similar support. Dont worry about whether any of the mattresses you "use" to gather information would actually be suitable for you. It's the information we want ... so we can put together an idea of your perfect mattress. None of the one's you test may be perfect but knowing what works and doesn't would give a much better idea of how to put together a "do it yourself" if that ends up being the way to go. Hope this helps a bit. Just treat all the stores as your playground and research lab no matter what their mattresses cost. Do as much on the phone as you can. And most of all have fun with this. We will get there if you go only one step at a time. Phoenix
Phoenix wrote: Do a google search for "mattress moline illinois" and you will get a list of stores. One called the back store will also be helpful (It has OMI mattresses) but there are lots more. then do a google search on the other 3 parts of the quad cities to see if you get any more. You will get lots of options and then call the ones that you think are worth it and ask them specific questions about what they have before you decide where to go. If I can find them ... so can you :) Phoenix This message was modified Nov 18, 2010 by Phoenix
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Phoenix,
I spent today visiting furniture stores again. I think I hit all of them within a 35 mile radius anyway....I stopped at Denver Mattress in Davenport, Iowa today and spoke to someone about what they had. Unfortunately, the two men who were in the store knew nothing about the ILD...nor who manufactured the latex foam that was in their mattresses. They did not have any mattresses that were just latex but had a couple that had 2-3 inches of latex over visco foam or something....I laid on a lot of beds today at every store I went to....latex, visco, memory, springs, pillow tops....I have to say I loved the feel on my joints of the memory foam but it's really not an option for me. I dont like what's in them or anything I've read or heard about them but I laid on them anyway cuz you said I should get a feel for what I liked as far as relieving pressure on my shoulders. I also liked, believe it or not, the Sealy Posturpedic that is out with a plush pillow top...which is exactly what I bought ten years ago...lol It was at American TV in Davenport but, I dont want to get another one. It was great for a few years and then, it just hurt....It looks great and feels great at first but...anyway.....Let's see....American had a few beds that said it had latex but again, nobody could tell me what kind of latex, where it came from or the ILD and, it read, "latex foam" over a bunch of other things....it wasnt that soft on my shoulders. THe "Back Store" or whatever it's called was the store I visited at the mall earlier in the week......He was selling mostly tempurpedics but also had a couple of Nature's Rest beds and Comfortaire but he was really pushing the Tempurpedics. I loved how the "Cloud" felt but, again, not what I'm looking for. I visited several other furniture stores who didnt have anything with latex...just spring mattresses with poly and/or tempurpedics....seem to be very popular everywhere... I went to Lifestyles Furniture today too and they had nothing with latex in it, in the store. Then, lastly, I wanted to go back to Lebeda again to take another look at their latex beds...remember me telling you that had two latex beds that had 4 inches of latex over springs and one solid latex bed? Well, when I went back today, there was a different salesperson there and when I talked to him about the latex beds he told me a total different story about them than I heard the other day from the lady I spoke to. He said the solid latex bed, which had about 6" of latex was a Talalay and it had an ILD of 28. The Reve model at Lebeda that had the springs under 4 inches of latex felt the best to me, pressure relief-wise and he said the latex was a Talalay and had an ILD of 22. I loved that feel the best but not sure about a mattress with springs again....I told him that and he said that he was going to call the production room in Denver and talk to the manager and find out if they could make one for me so just for the heck of it, I said ok...but no committment....He said the guy told him if I wanted the solid core latex mattress that was an ILD 28 he could take and put 2 inches of latex on top of that, with a ILD of 22 and sell it to me but, it would only be on one side so it could not be flipped, and, they would not give me a 30 day comfort guarantee since it would be a custom made mattress that they couldnt prob resell. It would still have the 10 yr warranty. What do you think of that, Phoenix? I told him I'd have to think about it and would get back with him. Do you think 2 inches of ILD 22 latex on top of six inches of a 28 ILD latex mattress would be comfortable? I mean, would it sag to much? He said they couldn't do both sides for fire code reasons?? I couldnt tell the spine alinement thing with any of the mattresses....thoughts?? sjeanine This message was modified Nov 18, 2010 by sjeanine
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You did well ... and gathered a lot of valuable information ... I need to eat something though and have a few things I need to do so I'll sort of gather the information you passed on and post a bit later with some thoughts and questions. :) Phoenix |
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Ok it looks like we've done step one and a good part of step 2. Almost there. From what you've said ... it's pretty clear that you like some softness on top and a plush rather than firm overall feel. That's step one done. Did you lay on any of the mattresses at Denver mattress with some latex on top? It would be really helpful if you did and wrote down the model and your impressions. Again ... don't forget at this stage not to exclude anything that has 3" or more of latex in the top no matter what is under it as it helps to know what works for you ... even if it isn't one you plan on buying or would even consider buying. Even your experience with 2" of latex on top of something would be helpful. You are still playing and collecting information ... not deciding on any mattress from any of these places. I realized today that the specs I was telling you about came from another place and I didn't notice I had the wrong name. Sorry to add any confusion. It sounds like in the range of 22 is looking pretty close to the comfort layer you will probably need but we're not quite done yet. I didn't see a reve on their website so I'm going to get to the bottom of this and call them to find out exactly what you lay on and what the specs are. I'm guessing the single slab would have been around 28-32 so that comfirms that you probably need softer for pressure relief. I seriously doubt that I would buy anything from any of the places you've visited but the experience and your feedback from laying on their mattresses is necessary to find out what works for you. As far as whether adding 2" over 8" is enough, that depends on how it feels for you. We haven't yet quite got to step 3 which is where we figure out the ILD of your core. It would also help to know your general body makeup ... height, weight as this would play a role as well. 8" of latex is fine in many cases although I prefer 3" over a core personally as 2" isn't enough to stop me from feeling a firm core underneath. Many people use 6+2 and are happy with it but we need to figure out the density of the 6" layer. Too soft for your weight distribution and you will "hammock" (maybe that's what you mean by sagging) which means that your hips will sink too far. When I call them I also plan to ask what kind of springs were in the mattress you liked as that will help decide what the core should be. So if you can let me know about Denver (hopefully you lay on a couple there) and about the weight height and stuff, we'll continue tomorrow. (Added later) I just realized that you've already posted your "stats" so all I need is the Denver info (if you tried them). With your weights ... it's probably even more indication of a little softer on the top than firmer. Phoenix PS: their 6" + 2" mattress was what they quoted me on when I talked to them and it's $1399 (queen). If this is the way you decide to go in the end, you would save a few hundred by ordering this same combination from an online outlet like Sleep EZ or Arizona mattress factory (the one you mentioned before). That plus you wouldn't have to pay any sales tax (not sure if you have sales tax where you are). This message was modified Nov 19, 2010 by Phoenix
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Phoenix, Who quoted you the $1399 for a 6+2? I prob wont be going out today or tomorrow as I'm feeling ill. My son had the flu last weekend and I think it's finally hit me. But, I did lay on a lot of the beds at Denver Mattress...I cant remember the names now but I think one was called a Snowqueen or something like that. It felt to firm to me and they had no ILD on any of their latex beds but I'll go back when I'm feeling better and take a pen and paper next time. ; ) Thanks for hanging in there and helping me with this. sjeanine |
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This price was from a previous conversation I had with them when I was talking to a lot of manufacturers. I have it in my notes. I talked to several people today that could help in the search. First of all was these people in Moline http://www.platformbeds.com/index.php3?category=0000000005&cart_id=240690161020610964 who have 3 latex beds (poly in the support layers) listed on their website which are not yet set up in their showroom. They will probably set them up on monday. They will make a great testing ground when they are and may probably give us enough information to get to a final decision. I also talked to either the owner or manager of the back store that you went to http://www.thebackstoreonline.com/cats/locations.htm. I told him of your experience with being steered to the Tempurpedics and he knew who you had probably talked to. Told him that this attitude from a salesperson wasn't "helpful". They also do have some latex mattresses (not the OMI they have listed) ... some Natures Rest models from last year and have just received some newer Natures Rest models that they haven't set up yet. The newer ones from my research are probably not Latex but the older ones probably have some latex mixed with polyfoam in the comfort layers. While they could have been helpful when you started, we are past the point where they would be helpful now. He said they sell so many Tempurpedics that "misdirection" can sometimes happen. I suspect he may have a "little talk" with the salesperson. Finally I had a long conversation with Lebeda. Now what I am going to say I suspected from your reports but she confirmed. Our conversation was very helpful to confirm that while she may not be "filled with information" about the specs on their beds (she gave me some but gave me a number of a person who was involved in making them to call if I wanted to on Monday), it was also clear that she and the company in general really did want to find a suitable mattress for their customers even if their choices in Latex were a little limited. I really don't mean to be harsh here but it is really important to take this one step at a time and to follow each step. You REALLY need to follow step 2 and 3 more closely so we can get to a point of finding out what is suitable for you. You did not spend enough time on each bed at Lebeda and were "rushing" way too much and asking about things like price and construction that are part of the last 2 steps and will confuse more than help at this stage. All that matters in step 2 is laying down on around 3" of latex over anything in different mattresses and taking notes about how they felt in terms of pressure relief. Nothing else. You need to spend at least 15 minutes on each mattress you are considering for step 2 and 3 to get an accurate idea of which type of construction (not which mattress) is suitable for you. For now, the next step is to spend ENOUGH time on 4 specific mattresses. These are the 3 Dormia at platformbeds and the Smowmass at Denver again (if this is close enough otherwise just the 3). Before you start with this phone platform beds to make sure they have set up their 3 Dormia latex mattresses on the floor. On EACH of these you need to lay on them FOR AT LEAST 15 MINUTES TOTAL. Lay in all of your normal sleeping positions for at least 5 minutes or preferably longer (yes I know that feels like a long time in a store) quietly and relaxed as if you were going to sleep. Try to sense if you feel any pressure points in any of your positions. Bounce lightly with your hips and shoulders to see if you can feel a "harder" layer underneath. Try to get a sense of each part of your body but especially hips and shoulder. Also make sure that you use a store pillow (ask the store for one) when you are testing this or bring your own with you. WRITE DOWN what you felt on each mattress before you go to the next one and do the same. When you have done this with all 4 step 2 will be done. With step 3 you need to lay on EACH of these 4 AGAIN for another 15 minutes each to test for spinal alignment (You can make the Snowmass the last one in step 2 so you can make it the first one in this step to save you some travelling time). It would be preferable here to take someone with you that could accurately check for you (especially someone like your SO who will be motivated to give you accurate information) but if you can't then get the salesperson to check for you. Your other half should actually be doing all this as well unless they can sleep on anything and promise to never complain ever about your selection. Make it clear if you feel any sales pressure that if they don't give you good and accurate information that there is no chance they will make a sale as you are doing research for a few more days and not buying anything today. You are testing here to see if your spine is straight in all your normal sleeping positions in each of the mattresses (one at a time). On your side and back have someone slide their hand under your waist or the small of your back to make sure there is no gap there (it should be a little difficult to slide under you). On your side you want your spine to be straight and on your back you want your spine to have the same curve as when you are standing with good posture. Do the best you can (with help) here. Write down your results with each mattress in step 3 as well. When you have done these 2 steps with these 4 mattresses then post here with your specific results with the name of each mattress. If you take your time and limit what you do to this alone ... then we can go on to the last 2 steps which is about where, what, and how to buy, the overall construction of what you buy, and which of your many options (local and do it yourself) has the best value and fits in your budget. Phoenix This message was modified Nov 20, 2010 by Phoenix
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Phoenix wrote:
This price was from a previous conversation I had with them when I was talking to a lot of manufacturers. I have it in my notes.
I talked to several people today that could help in the search. First of all was these people in Moline http://www.platformbeds.com/index.php3?category=0000000005&cart_id=240690161020610964 who have 3 latex beds (poly in the support layers) listed on their website which are not yet set up in their showroom. They will probably set them up on monday. They will make a great testing ground when they are and may probably give us enough information to get to a final decision. I also talked to either the owner or manager of the back store that you went to http://www.thebackstoreonline.com/cats/locations.htm. I told him of your experience with being steered to the Tempurpedics and he knew who you had probably talked to. Told him that this attitude from a salesperson wasn't "helpful". They also do have some latex mattresses (not the OMI they have listed) ... some Natures Rest models from last year and have just received some newer Natures Rest models that they haven't set up yet. The newer ones from my research are probably not Latex but the older ones probably have some latex mixed with polyfoam in the comfort layers. While they could have been helpful when you started, we are past the point where they would be helpful now. He said they sell so many Tempurpedics that "misdirection" can sometimes happen. I suspect he may have a "little talk" with the salesperson. Finally I had a long conversation with Lebeda. Now what I am going to say I suspected from your reports but she confirmed. Our conversation was very helpful to confirm that while she may not be "filled with information" about the specs on their beds (she gave me some but gave me a number of a person who was involved in making them to call if I wanted to on Monday), it was also clear that she and the company in general really did want to find a suitable mattress for their customers even if their choices in Latex were a little limited. I really don't mean to be harsh here but it is really important to take this one step at a time and to follow each step. You REALLY need to follow step 2 and 3 more closely so we can get to a point of finding out what is suitable for you. You did not spend enough time on each bed at Lebeda and were "rushing" way too much and asking about things like price and construction that are part of the last 2 steps and will confuse more than help at this stage. All that matters in step 2 is laying down on around 3" of latex over anything in different mattresses and taking notes about how they felt in terms of pressure relief. Nothing else. You need to spend at least 15 minutes on each mattress you are considering for step 2 and 3 to get an accurate idea of which type of construction (not which mattress) is suitable for you. For now, the next step is to spend ENOUGH time on 4 specific mattresses. These are the 3 Dormia at platformbeds and the Smowmass at Denver again (if this is close enough otherwise just the 3). Before you start with this phone platform beds to make sure they have set up their 3 Dormia latex mattresses on the floor. On EACH of these you need to lay on them FOR AT LEAST 15 MINUTES TOTAL. Lay in all of your normal sleeping positions for at least 5 minutes or preferably longer (yes I know that feels like a long time in a store) quietly and relaxed as if you were going to sleep. Try to sense if you feel any pressure points in any of your positions. Bounce lightly with your hips and shoulders to see if you can feel a "harder" layer underneath. Try to get a sense of each part of your body but especially hips and shoulder. Also make sure that you use a store pillow (ask the store for one) when you are testing this or bring your own with you. WRITE DOWN what you felt on each mattress before you go to the next one and do the same. When you have done this with all 4 step 2 will be done. With step 3 you need to lay on EACH of these 4 AGAIN for another 15 minutes each to test for spinal alignment (You can make the Snowmass the last one in step 2 so you can make it the first one in this step to save you some travelling time). It would be preferable here to take someone with you that could accurately check for you (especially someone like your SO who will be motivated to give you accurate information) but if you can't then get the salesperson to check for you. Your other half should actually be doing all this as well unless they can sleep on anything and promise to never complain ever about your selection. Make it clear if you feel any sales pressure that if they don't give you good and accurate information that there is no chance they will make a sale as you are doing research for a few more days and not buying anything today. You are testing here to see if your spine is straight in all your normal sleeping positions in each of the mattresses (one at a time). On your side and back have someone slide their hand under your waist or the small of your back to make sure there is no gap there (it should be a little difficult to slide under you). On your side you want your spine to be straight and on your back you want your spine to have the same curve as when you are standing with good posture. Do the best you can (with help) here. Write down your results with each mattress in step 3 as well. When you have done these 2 steps with these 4 mattresses then post here with your specific results with the name of each mattress. If you take your time and limit what you do to this alone ... then we can go on to the last 2 steps which is about where, what, and how to buy, the overall construction of what you buy, and which of your many options (local and do it yourself) has the best value and fits in your budget. Phoenix The Platform Beds place you mentioned above is the same as "Lifestyles Furniture", which I visited. Their showroom was very crowded and the lady I spoke with said they didnt have any latex beds. She said they had some that could be ordered but didnt have any room to put them anywhere right now. I told her I only was interested in latex so then I left....huh. I will go back again on Monday... I'm going to take my SO and head to Denver Mattress again today so we may hit Lifestyles again just to double check on the latex bed situation. Did you want me to go back to Lebeda to lay on their beds again? I dont remember even asking about prices at lebeda cuz they had all the prices clearly shown for each bed but I did only lay on them each for about 5 minutes....When I said that I liked the all-latex bed but felt some shoulder pressure, then the guy there left and was on the phone a bit and came back to tell me they could add some softer latex to the top for no extra charge. I told him I'd think about it and get back with them. I have no problem with laying longer on the beds...sorry. This message was modified Nov 21, 2010 by sjeanine
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If you go to Denver mattress, then lay on the Snomass and the Aspen. That will give you 2 for today (and give your SO some experience with latex). Those and the 3 Dormia when they set them up is fine. We'll have the information we need then to decide what to do next. Phoenix |
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Phoenix,
Wow....It's been a loooong day today! Lol and I'm tired of looking at mattresses! I hate car shopping cuz of all the sales pitches and that's how I'm feeling today...especially after looking last week! lol I took my dh with me today and he started out sort of non-chalant...sort of dont really care attitude and told me he could sleep on a rock so just take my time and try and figure out what works for me. Ok, so....the very first store we stopped at was Denver Mattress....I found out we had one right in Moline, IL...thanks to dh....he knew, I didnt. Anyways, I laid on the Snowqueen/mass but within 5 minutes my right shoulder was hurting pretty bad so switched over to my back, also hurting, so I got off and walked around a bit....My husband did tell me that my spine looked aligned on it. The salesman, Jed, also the manager, said he did not know the ILD but wanted to show us another bed with latex in it....a Snowmass Plush. So, we went over to the next latex bed and I laid down that one...I laid on my left side, which wasnt hurting, laid there for 5 minutes with no pressure pain then rolled over to my back. After 5 minutes my lower back actually started hurting and Jed heard me tell my husband that so he said he wanted me to stay there for a few more minutes to see if he could stop my back from hurting. I said ok and he pulled out a remote control thing that started raising the head and foot of the bed...which did relieve the pressure on my back. He told me that I really needed to just buy that bed with this ergonomic bed frame and learn to sleep on my back, which he said would be better for me anyway and get over sleeping on my sides...which he said was actually worse for me. Now, suddenly my husband who had no interest in a bed whatsoever was all about buying this bed when he saw that!! LOL!! I told him that we were just looking and not interesed in buying right now and this guy started throwing all kinds of things our way to try and make a sell!! Unbelieveable!! To make a long story short, had to leave there with dh pouting about it but I reminded him why he was there in the first place....to HELP me find a bed that I could live with and he was fine again. We were in that store a looooong time!! Ok, now glad to be out of there cuz both beds were really pretty hard and uncomfortable to me in a short amount of time...we headed to Lifestyles/Platform Beds....The store manager, Megan, who helped us, said they had NO latex mattresses in the store at all and that there were none on order or any that could be ordered. She said they pretty much carried Tempurpedics and Dormia's...which she said were a "knock off" of Tempurpedics. She said she wasnt sure what was in them, just some sort of memory foam. Anyway, I told her we were just wanting to lay on some beds awhile to see what would be comfortable and that we might be there awhile so she left us and went to help others....leaving me to be able to try out the beds with no pressure like the Denver guy gave us! First, the Dormia Classic...the alignment looked ok but I did feel a bit like I was sinking. No pain, even after 15 minutes...5 on ea shoulder and my back. We moved on to the Dormia Ultra.....I felt a little more support on this one with no pressure point pain...lower back was fine and alignment was great, according to dh. I did not see another Dormia so just for the heck of it I tried out a Tempurpedic...felt great at first but after about ten minutes of being on it I felt I was sinking in to much and I was ready to go. Lastly, we went to lunch and then off to the Lebeda store....I know it wasnt on my agenda originally but my dh was wanting to see what I looked at last week so we went again...for my third time! Lol! I'm glad I did cuz the guy who helped us, Ray, I think...showed me a couple more beds that I didnt realize had latex in them when I was there before. I even asked if I had seen everything with latex but somehow there must've been a misunderstanding....Anyway, this time, I kept asking if there were any more beds with any latex so he kept showing me them. The models the store had were: Reve, Opulence, Latex by Nature and the Bastogne. The Latex by Nature was the 28 ILD and my dh said my spine looked lined up....I felt just a little pressure pain in my rt shoulder after 5 minutes. Then, the Opulence, which felt wonderful with no pressure pain at all and my dh said spine looked aligned good. (It was over $3100 so he wasnt so happy that I liked it.) lol The salesman wasnt sure of the ILD but thought it was around 26 or 28.... He said it prob just felt better cuz it had springs inside the top 4 inches that were on top of box springs....I reached down and could feel the springs about 2" below the inside of the latex...huh. It really did feel comfortable but not sure why....I thought springs would make it harder and hurt easier. Then I tried out the Reve....ILD was 22 and it was a spring mattress with 4 inches of latex on top. My dh said my alignment was a little off and I started actually feeling a little sore in my shoulders after about ten minutes...maybe cuz they were getting sore from all the trying out of beds...or the springs below the 4 inches!? lol Lastly, I tried out the Barogne, which they had displayed in a queen as well as a king. I really liked the comfort of this bed the best I think...this one and the Opulence...no pressure pain or back pain...He wasnt sure of the ILD and my dh said alinement was fine. We were in here a long time as well and now I'm pooped out and glad to be home but not looking forward to another painful night in my own bed. : ( Anyway, that's our shopping experience with mattresses again today. There was a message from the L&W guy but he didnt leave me a price quote...just said to call him back on Monday. What are your thoughts?
This message was modified Nov 21, 2010 by sjeanine
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My overall sense is that you did well and that you probably now have enough information to go with a "build your own". I will look at the one's you tried and confirm the pattern that I think is developing. What the salesman said about "learning to lie on your back" and "needing an adjustable" is absolute hogwash. They are really nice (I have one myself) but they are not a "necessity" in any way. So were any "fake offers" if you buy now. Believe me you can do better than anything they could possibly offer you. The whole purpose of this excercise was to try to get to a place where there was a reasonable assurance that you liked latex in the first place and second that we could know the makeup of a bed that was suitable for you ... or at least close enough that a layer exchange could fix any problems with a do it yourself. That's why it didn't matter how expensive any beds were that you lay on because it was unlikely that any of them would have been your best value anyway. If in doing your research you did find one that was perfect AND was better value than anything you could do otherwise, then that would have been a bonus but my sense was that outside of Lebeda, your odds of finding anything that you should end up buying was unlikely ... and depending on their prices it may even be unlikely there as well. It was the research that was important. I'll take a look at what you told me and post more later. Phoenix PS: I can see why you liked the opulance as it has microcoils in it over the innerspring. I tried a mattress very similar to this one from a local manufacturer here and it was one of my favorites in terms of how it felt ... except it was less than half the cost. There are several places in my list that sell these at better prices but for now I'm more interested in the fact you liked it than I am thinking it's something you should buy :) This message was modified Nov 21, 2010 by Phoenix
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All the Denver sites are listed on their website :). I didn't know that they had a "Snowmass plush" and was going to ask you if you had layed on the Aspen as I had asked in my last post but on a whim I called them and confirmed what I thought had happened. I talked to someone there that remembered you and your other half coming in and they confirmed that the other mattress you lay on there was the Aspen and that they don't have a "Snowmass plush" lol. The (rough) specs for both of these are on their website and the Aspen is a much softer mattress on top. I would have preferred it as well and I'm glad you did lay on it as that helps to confirm the direction for your "perfect mattress". What the "store manager" told you about the Dormia is also not correct and she may not even know that there are some waiting to be set up. The person I talked to there was a guy. It is usually better to do this stuff on the phone rather than in person so you don't get tired and frustrated with the travel and not finding what you needed to find. It also helps to "come in new" when you visit places rather than come back too many times in some cases. Some places will just "turn off" if you come back too often and others like Lebeda will continue to help you but may get a bit frustrated when it seems that the likelihood of making a sale is low or that they're not making progress. It is always better to first use the phone before you go somewhere ... even if they are very close by. A phone call would have confirmed that there was no real reason to go to a couple of places you went to today and saved you a "loooooong time" lol. I'm glad you went back to Lebeda though, your experience there and at Denver was really helpful. Phoenix This message was modified Nov 21, 2010 by Phoenix
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