Plush Beds

[Phoenix]

Just to further muddy the organic waters, GOTS is an organic "certifier" that accepts the certifications of any of 13 other "certifiers". http://www.global-standard.org/certification/approved-certification-bodies.html
One of these is "Oregon Tilth" which certifies fibers and textiles for GOTS and others (including the USDA). http://tilth.org/certification/standards/standards-and-regulatons
OMI, NATUREPEDIC, and LIFEKIND claim that they are GOTS certified (Through Oregon Tilth).
I couldn't find LIFEKIND on either the Oregon Tilth website or the GOTS website so I phoned them. Well it turns out that they and OMI both manufacture in the same facility and are sister companies owned by the same people. They told me that they had just noticed a couple of days ago that Lifekind was not listed and plan to correct that.
So at this point here are the "organic" mattresses in North America
OMI (Cotton mattresses only)
LIFEKIND (yet to be listed as to which mattress)
NATUREPEDIC (Ultra crib mattresses only)
Since there doesn't seem to be a list on the USDA site of approved organic products, and since the USDA superceded all other private organic standards when it was implemented in 2002 http://tilth.org/certification/standards/standards-and-regulatons it "appears" that Latex Green at this point has the only "certified organic" latex available.
This also means of course that the NAOMI standard which I included in the last post ... while it may show "purity" levels higher even than the USDA standards (don't know the exact USDA levels) it cannot certify something as organic in the US (only tests for purity and not necessarily for the entire "organic chain of production" and it is not on the USDA or GOTS list of certifiers).
Phoenix

 

[budgy]

I would be surprised if the rubber is dramatically different. but it is good to see confirmation that there is a difference between their organic latex and the natural latex, basically being which plantations the rubber is sourced from. I also love how they are finally making it clear that "natural talalay" latex will never be as natural as the best dunlop product around.

 

[Phoenix]

Budgy,
Do you carry the Sueno and Obasan as well as the Vimala?
If you do what do you (and your customers) think of them?
Phoenix

 

[budgy]

well technically the Vimala (and all of GreenSeep) is no longer being made by Sleeptek (Sueno and Obasan makers).
the Vimala was just recenty revised although it was our most popular mattress. my brother sleeps on one, and I probably would have gotten one for myself however before we got the line I took the plunge on a Natura Eco Haven, which I am very happy with btw. More than anything I just really like the base systems the GreenSleep beds use.
we do carry some Sueno product which we have actually private labelled so we could get Obasan's fabric on one of the beds. The name Obasan is only sold direct from the manufacturer. they are fantastic mattresses, customers generally like them a lot very comparable to the Natura organic line interms of the different build ups. Although they do things a little bit differently.
I really do believe though that when it comes to the quality of the raw materials and construction that GreenSleep is in a league of its own...we usually end up comparing those mattresses to beds in much higher price categories like Hypnos and Vi-Spring because from a build quality stand point that is really the more direct competition. So a lot of really happy people there, although I think that rubber has some limitations so there is no real guarantee that the beds will deliver 100% of what people want, however I do believe that if someone had a Vimala or the new Dolcezza model from them and they were not satisfied then really no all latex mattress would have worked.

 

[Phoenix]

I was kind of fortunate in the early part of my mattress search to have 2 stores reasonably near me (I'm a little over an hour away from Seattle) that had a good selection of Latex mattresses. One of them carried OMI and Natura. The guy there was actually the one who designed Natura's slatted system.
I lay on the eco haven there and it was too firm for both of us but it was a good reference point. The transcend was too firm as well although it was on sale for a very good price and we "tried to like it" because of the price. We both liked the slats. They also carried the OMI Terra and that spoiled both of us, especially in it's softest configuration which we liked the best and it became our initial reference point for what we tended to like. They also had some Englander "all latex" as well and also carried slabs of latex to make your own but we didn't know that at the time (cause they didn't show us).
The other store had their own brand of "custom layers" but while we learned a lot about the feel we liked, we didn't like the quality of their ticking (well actually my other half didn't like it cause she notices stuff like frayed edges more than me). They also carried magniflex which didn't impress us with either the price or the "features" in all their different types of "additives" in the ticking. When we went back to the first place after this was when we found out they also had "make your own layers".
We made a lot of trips to other places as well and at that point I hadn't even discovered this forum yet.
I never did lay on a green sleep but I liked the look of the obasan a lot when I saw it online.
Anyhow, I'm just rambling on as she is marking papers (she's a teacher) in our bed so I can't go and crash yet (laughing).
Gonna go and see if I can convince her to go to sleep.
Good night
Phoenix

 

[budgy]

you mean a salesperson in WA said he designed the natura slatted system used in their slatted mattresses? I honestly never knew it was someone other than the father/son who started the company as that was the first type of mattress they ever made back in 94'.
OMI is all 'natural' talalay right? They actually tried to contact us a long time ago to carry their product....how would you compare the product to the Natura's you tried on the overall?
We also had Magniflex contact us to become a dealer....their product seems very confusing and very gimmicky, I really was not interested in it whatsoever.

 

[Phoenix]

Yes, the salesperson was the son of the owner that had been in the industry for a long time. They have a close relationship with natura and showed me his "invention" while he was showing me the mattresses. He was quite unassuming about it and told me it came from his research into european slatted systems that at the time he designed it were not so widely available. Of course I didn't "research" his claim but it wasn't said with the "tone" of hype in any way or with the intent of getting me to buy it.
The Terra has a Talalay core and then "softer" latex on either side and then the topper. They do say it's all natural but their literature doesn't say the other layers are Talalay although I would think they were (and some other places say it is all Talalay). At the time I wasn't really considering it due to the price but I did like it's feel a lot. It would probably be safe to say that if it wasn't for the Terra and that we both wanted something that felt as good as that but within our budget, I would probably have bought something much sooner. It was the desire to reproduce it and see "what else was out there" that was the initial impetus to my research before it took on a life of its own. It to me felt and looked much nicer than any of the Natura's that I either lay on or even saw. It was very impressive. Their 81 was also very interesting and from a retail point of view could be quite practical as there are no comfort exchanges (it has 81 different configurations).
The magniflex to me was one big series of gimmics. I did lay on a couple and they were ok but nothing special ... especially for their price range. Even the salesperson there didn't treat them too seriously. I guess I just couldn't see the benefit of 22 karat gold impregnated yarn ... or any of their other "special benefits".
Phoenix

 

[retired2816]

Phoenix,

Congratulations on your mattress. Sounds like you hit the right formula. Enjoy!!!!
My wife and I are continuing our hunt. Ran into the back store and came across Swiss Rest. Was very comfortable and all talalay latex. Also tried the OMI lago. Here are the specs on the Swiss Rest: The cushion firm was a great combination for us. Euro pillow top was quilted latex. Latex Int. is the supplier. I am cking out the company on the web.
Have you heard of them? Positive/negative??
sy

Genuine talalay laminated latex core that contains 5.6" center core with 1.9" soft latex top and bottom. Available in three firmnesses, plus (24-28-24), cushion firm (24-36-24) and superior firm (28-40-28). Euro Pillow Top. Full Reversible. Box Quilt. 20-Year Warranty AVAILABLE 1.9" ILD 5.6" ILD 1.9" ILD FIRMNESSES TOPPER TOPPER TOPPER PLUSH 24 28 24 CUSHION FIRM 24 36 24 SUPERIOR FIRM 28 40 28

 

[Phoenix]

If this Swiss Rest is what you mean then yes I have quite a bit of information about them.
They are one of a large "family" of websites (at least 20) that I came across often in different iterations in my research. I came to recognize them pretty quickly and kept adding to a long list of sites that was (sort of) the same so I wouldn't keep covering the same ground. At that time most of them hadn't attached the name "Swiss Rest" to their mattress (and I don't think most of them do even now). They have been around for quite a while and specialize in adjustable beds and "medical" applications although they sell to consumers as well. They are all in the electropedic "family" of businesses and to their credit, at least the bbb rating of this site is an A (don't know if this covers the whole family or just this site).
I wanted to talk to someone closer to the "origin" of all these websites so I talked with someone here (pretty sure it was this one anyway but I'd have to go through a bunch of old notes to be sure) . This may or may not be the main site (Its different from the previous link) but I'm glad I called it.
The different websites had a lot of conflicting information and prices and they seemed very disorganized. For example at some sites the breakdown of the outer layers is 1.1, at other sites it is 1.9. Perhaps this is the difference between their high and low profile but I thought their low profile was just the core.
Having said that, I did have quite a long conversation with the person I talked to and he was quite up front with me. He said they were in a kind of "transition" period and that they hadn't really decided on a mattress that they wanted to "promote". He acknowledged the confusion that could come from the differing information at their many websites. He did say that while he personally did like the mattress with 1.1 + 5.6 + 1.1 ... that they were having some problems with it especially on adjustable beds. He seemed to know what he was talking about and seemed very honest ... but what he said didn't inspire me about the company (even though I appreciated the person). The main reason I talked to them was because of their combination of latex mattresses and the selection of adjustable beds at good prices (at least if you bought both from them) but not the best prices.
In the end, I was getting so much conflicting information about them that I pretty much decided to pass them by given the amount of choice there was out there.
Everything I did with them though was on the internet, it sounds like you found a bricks and mortar outlet. If that is the case then of course your research becomes much easier. FWIW ... the Latex International blended talalay comes in 5.6 inch slabs. The all natural is 6". Even many/most of the blended they are producing now is 6".
I would personally question outer layers that were that thin (1.1 or 1.9 depending on which website you go to) but personal experience should always overrule theory.
I also believe that each of the different outlets has some degree of "independence" so the actual mattresses may be different as well.
There is another "family" of websites (homeplacegroup) that I spend many hours trying to "unravel" that is even worse with outdated pricing and information. In their case all their sites lead to the same place (or at least the same place answers the phone). They would not honor any of the adjustable bed/mattress combinations I was interested in and kept trying to do a bait and switch with me (with the better value similar pricing BS).
So was this an actual store where you lay on mattresses?
Phoenix

 

[Phoenix]

Along the same lines, here are a few other websites that I would approach with caution.
http://www.dremata.com/contact.html
http://www.greenmattressfactory.com/
http://thegreenbedstore.com/mattress-latex.htm

They are all somehow connected to http://www.bbb.org/centralohio/busi...g-inc-dba-mattress-mart-in-plain-city-oh-4221

I'm not sure if this connection is through ownership, family, or that they (quilting inc) were just suppliers and caught up in a chain of events.

There are probably other similar websites as well (beside other dead ones you will come across if you decide to do some looking).

They all have some very nice looking mattresses at seemingly very good prices and the Dremata site had even nicer ones (when I talked to them they were very surprised I had found it as it was still active at the time). I think it might have been my call that prompted him to take it down as it went dead shortly after. I put up the (dead) Dremata link in case it ever comes back or in case anyone wants to do any further research for their own purposes

The BBB website also lists some "aliases" such as King Koil and Englander and I doubt that they are part of any of this but they may have manufactured these brands under some kind of license at one time.

I am not saying that they are "bad" but there is some history here which I would make sure you were aware of regarding different family members and transfer of business ownership and/or bankruptcy and some of the debts (and customers) they "left behind". I talked to some of the people who had been affected.

When I talked with them it was quite funny. At first he was very "helpful and nice" but when I asked about some of what I had heard he immediately switched to "defensive salesman semi aggressive" mode and then when I said "I know that you have to take everything you hear with a grain of salt and probably none of it was true but I had to ask" ... he immediately went back to helpful and nice.

Unfortunately some of their names are very similar to some really good and reputable websites as well so make sure you don't "throw out the baby with the bathwater"

Be careful out there.

Phoenix

PS: none of these are ones I have referred to in previous (negative) posts since they were not so much about "bad business" as much as "bad attitude" or "bad information".

 

[retired2816]

Good evening Phoenix,

How is the new mattress working out?? Hope all is going well.
The store we went to was The Back Store. They do mostly tempur-pedic with some other mattresses thrown in. We went there because they carried the OMI and we wanted to try them to rate them with other mattresses we tried. We tried the Terra, Lago and Flora. The Terra was nice but we like the Lago for a little more support and the Flora was too firm. After we layed on the OMI's, the owner directed us to the Swiss Rest. The feel was between the Terra and the Lago. So I spoke with the sales rep after reading your response and advised I would like more info on the product and informed him I couldn't find anything directly related to Swiss Rest. He advised a sale rep from the company will call to answer my questions. The company name is Advanced Medical which is owned by The Back Store which does not have a public web site. Sounds strange to me. Have a list of questions when the rep calls.
It is so hard trying to find latex mattresses to try out. In our area there are no latex mattress dealers with some of the brands we have researched on the web and we had to travel two hours to try out the OMI's. I think we are getting close to understanding the various comfort levels with ILD's.
Questions - Does the blended latex have a different density then natural latex or are they close in the ILD ratings? If you use a blend what is the best % for blending? Is it better mattress construction for the different layers which make up the comfort levels to be "glued or adhered" together for a better fell or doesn't it matter?
Will let you know what the company rep has to say.

sy

 

[Phoenix]

They sure sound similar to electropedic which also specializes in consumer/medical mattresses, beds, and other things. It's just too much of a coincidence http://www.electroease.com/Swiss-Rest.html
Blended Talalay and natural Talalay would feel very similar if they had the same ILD. I doubt that anyone could tell the difference if they didn't know which was which. Natural would be a little "springier" but the difference would be very small. Not as much difference as there would be between a similar ild layer of Dunlop latex and Talalay latex.
Here is a discussion between Latex international and Savvy Rest that talks about it a little more: http://www.savvyrest.com/blog/qa-our-talalay-suppliers
What city are you in? I may have some small supplier in my list near you.
And the mattress is wonderful. I can honestly say I haven't slept this well for a long time. No back issues for either of us so far either which would have been my only concern given that it is softer than many people would choose.
Phoenix

 

[retired2816]

We live in Springfield, Illinois. We may have to plan a trip to Chicago, Indianapolis or St. Louis.

sy

 

[Phoenix]

Here are a few that might be worth either a phone call or a trip.
http://www.springfieldmattress.net/custom.html
Haven't talked to these but they make restonic (all latex can be expensive if they carry these but good for test purposes) and their own according to their website

http://www.bemco.com/index.html
They also make their own but their website doesn't say anything about latex. Might be worth a call

http://www.lebeda.com
I did talk to these people and they quoted me a price of 1399 for 6+2 = 9" latex. Probably worth a call and if they sound promising a visit

http://www.verlo.com/customerservice/stores/IL
You've been here but added just for reference for anyone else from springfield that may read this thread.

From your experience at the back store you are seemingly getting close to knowing what you like. My experience with electropedic (electroease) was directed more to putting a mattress on an adjustable bed and not so much to the quality of their mattress. 1.9" on either side of a 5.6" core 2 sided could be a very good combination for many people but of course it would also depend on what they were charging.

Phoenix

 

[retired2816]

Hi Phoenix,
Have visited those places and they don't have anything that interests us. Have not been contacted by the rep for Swiss Rest so I may be steering clear of them. I have been looking closely at tomorrows world cozy embrace. Their 7" core is dunlop 28/32/28 with 3" of talalay 19 plus the quilted cover of 1/2 dunlop latex and wool in a cotton covering is tempting and is close to our ILD numbers. Trying to determine how the talalay 35 core of 6" in the OMI with 3" talalay 22 would compare. I am thinking the embrace would feel more in line with Swiss Rest with the 19 talalay but can't be sure due to the dunlop core. We are going to continue our search and try to find some dunlop mattresses to try and feel the difference between the two types of latex. Got to run just had a call from the Swiss Rest rep. Talk with you later and let you know what he has to say.

sy

 

[Phoenix]

Tomorrow's world also has the cozy caress which is exactly the same as the embrace with a little firmer and zoned top layer (Dunlop). The non latex quilt with wool/cotton would also firm it up a bit I suspect. Have you talked to them? They may have some experience in comparing the feel of their mattresses to some you have tried. They seemed quite helpful on the phone when I talked with them.
Phoenix

 

[retired2816]

Phoenix,

Spoke wiith the Swiss Rest rep. He makes the mattresses at electropedic. Advised it was a separate operation. They use a blended talalay from LI. The mattress core is 5.5" 36 ILD and the top and bottom of the mattress are 1.9" of 24 ILD. The cover is some type of cotton foam. He mentioned something about whisper shield base. Not really comfortable with this operation.
Spoke with a rep fromTomorrow's World and trying to figure out which mattress would compare to the Swiss Rest. Looks like the embrace or caress are in the running. Will comtinue to shop around and lay on some mattresses which have similar layers of the ILD which Tomorrow's World offers.
Apprecaite all your advice. It has been helpful. Will let you know how things work out.
sy

 

[retired2816]

Phoenix,
In the process of making a deal on a latex mattress. The store also handles tempur-pedic and suggested using their foundation as it was premium 5/8" density fiberboard and provides good mattress support.
Thoughts?? Recommendations??

sy

 

[Phoenix]

I'm not sure where you're purchasing from but depending on what kind of store it is I would certainly take along some of the prices for similar mattresses from some of the links in the threads here to use as "ammunition". Some stores and/or outlets will of course be more open to negotiation than others depending on their own policies, circumstances, and the profit built in to the price they are charging.
I would also be very careful about paying too much on a foundation as some places will use that to "make up" for any discounts you get on a mattress. They can be a major profit center particularly if they are a "name brand" foundation. There are a lot of places where you can get a good and perfectly suitable foundation for a very reasonable cost.
Is it the Swiss Rest back store you are talking to?
Phoenix

 

[retired2816]

Phoenix,
The mattress set was originally $3699 and I have the cost down to $2800. It is the OMI and I believe it is a good deal. Was curious if the foundation needed to be constructed in a special way or if the tempur-pedic foundation would be ok. The specs look like it is well built.

sy